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Let's make Nightmare truly NIGHTMARE


gripenfelter's Avatar


gripenfelter
06.06.2012 , 06:51 AM | #1
Couple of fellow guildmates and I were discussing D3 and hardcore mode and the finality of it. How people react and how it brings a different aspect to the game. I got to thinking how Bioware could set it's operations apart from everyone else and make Nightmare worth something.

Here's the idea:

Make Nightmare mode deaths final.

So how do you go about it and not make it impossible? Bioware makes HM difficulty a mix between HM now and what Nightmare is currently. This way it prepares guilds to do NiM or keeps the operations a challenge for players not willing to move into NiM. Turn NiM into a lose everything except bank, legacy, etc...Make NiM a slight ( and I mean slight) bit more difficult. Perhaps the boss hit a little harder, enrage is a tad sooner, but the mechanics are the same. This will allow guilds to tune and tweak their strat in HM.

Doing this will require a few qualifications to enter.

Everyone upon zone in would have to accept or check mark something acknowledging they are entering a NiM instance. This get s rid of the QQ and excuses. Next, NiM will only be 8 man. This way guilds can have a small core group that works together well. Lockout would not be shared with each other and their would be separate lockouts for Story, Hm, and NiM.

Make rewards worth the effort.

Make the drops Legendary. Gear with built-in augments, killer looks like glowing auras and battle worn gear, (the best looking gear in-game, sabers with a color crystal that you can only get in NiM, etc...Really put a talented design team dedicated to awesome gear. Give the gear sweet set bonuses and make the stats at least a level or two higher. .Make it worth the cost basically and truly set NiM apart.

What do you think?

Aetou's Avatar


Aetou
06.06.2012 , 07:01 AM | #2
Are you really suggesting a mode where one dodgy internet connection or screwup by an individual causes 8 people to permanently lose their characters, gear, etc.? Seriously?

I could see the merits of a mode where if you died you stayed dead until the instance was reset but permanent deaths? Well... I know I don't trust anyone that much.

Brittaany_Banks's Avatar


Brittaany_Banks
06.06.2012 , 07:01 AM | #3
No offense to you. I am sure you are a smart person, but this is the stupidest idea ever. Simple fact of the matter is this idea has been tried before in MMOs. The only thing it does is create a large gap of haves, and have nots. The have nots and players who lose everything unsub.


Perma-loss in an MMO has been proven to be a bad idea whether implemented perfectly, or poorly.

What if a player disconnects because of a freak lightning storm or a branch falling on a power line? That disconnect will wipe the group and potentially now 4-8 people lose EVERYTHING.


TLDR version: Tried before in MMOs, more of a negative than a positive.
I don't care who you are. I don't care if you are male, or female, black, or white, gay, or straight, religious, or non-religious, old or young. I care about 3 things. Can you tank properly? Can you DPS properly? Can you heal properly?

gripenfelter's Avatar


gripenfelter
06.06.2012 , 07:16 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Brittaany_Banks View Post
No offense to you. I am sure you are a smart person, but this is the stupidest idea ever. Simple fact of the matter is this idea has been tried before in MMOs. The only thing it does is create a large gap of haves, and have nots. The have nots and players who lose everything unsub.


Perma-loss in an MMO has been proven to be a bad idea whether implemented perfectly, or poorly.

What if a player disconnects because of a freak lightning storm or a branch falling on a power line? That disconnect will wipe the group and potentially now 4-8 people lose EVERYTHING.


TLDR version: Tried before in MMOs, more of a negative than a positive.
It's very simple and it may not be for you....if you don't want to take the risk, don't enter the instance, period. To some losing something in a video game is just that, something in a video game. Those who do take the risk and succeed get things other do not. It's a risk vs. reward and gives guilds the possibility of a true worlds first competition.

This will also create a reason for some players to keep playing...the rush and thrill of it all. Then if you don't make it, you and you're guildmates power level and start again.

Again this won't be for everyone and the difficulty of current HM will need to be set a little higher with the rewards of HM being that of current NiM.

Brittaany_Banks's Avatar


Brittaany_Banks
06.06.2012 , 07:22 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by gripenfelter View Post
It's very simple and it may not be for you....if you don't want to take the risk, don't enter the instance, period. To some losing something in a video game is just that, something in a video game. Those who do take the risk and succeed get things other do not. It's a risk vs. reward and gives guilds the possibility of a true worlds first competition.

This will also create a reason for some players to keep playing...the rush and thrill of it all. Then if you don't make it, you and you're guildmates power level and start again.

Again this won't be for everyone and the difficulty of current HM will need to be set a little higher with the rewards of HM being that of current NiM.
Death penalties like what you are suggesting are an archaic form of MMO difficulty challenge that like I said have been phased out for obvious reasons.

Death penalties like gear decay, travel costs, etc I am fine with but HARD death penalties like you are suggesting is too much. This is an article that was done last year by massively on death penalties and their follies. I suggest you read if you haven't already.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/03...ath-penalties/
I don't care who you are. I don't care if you are male, or female, black, or white, gay, or straight, religious, or non-religious, old or young. I care about 3 things. Can you tank properly? Can you DPS properly? Can you heal properly?

Screaming_Ziva's Avatar


Screaming_Ziva
06.06.2012 , 07:24 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by gripenfelter View Post
It's very simple and it may not be for you....if you don't want to take the risk, don't enter the instance, period. To some losing something in a video game is just that, something in a video game. Those who do take the risk and succeed get things other do not. It's a risk vs. reward and gives guilds the possibility of a true worlds first competition.

This will also create a reason for some players to keep playing...the rush and thrill of it all. Then if you don't make it, you and you're guildmates power level and start again.

Again this won't be for everyone and the difficulty of current HM will need to be set a little higher with the rewards of HM being that of current NiM.
And when you lose your connection and die (or your healer losses connection and causes a party wipe) you will probably be at the front of the line complaining and trying to get customer service to restore your character.

The biggest flaw with this is your comparing it to Diablo hard core. Hard core characters are separated from regular characters and they cannot play together. In order to do this, Bioware would have to create hard core servers.

Mikesglory's Avatar


Mikesglory
06.06.2012 , 07:32 AM | #7
Character death no, but would definitely be all for a complete gear/inventory wipe upon death (but with incredible rewards if you survive)

Character death would be pointless for the simple reason that no one wants to grind 50 levels of boredom again and again. Whereas gear loss just means regrinding fun operations which you would probably be doing anyway.

gripenfelter's Avatar


gripenfelter
06.06.2012 , 07:32 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Screaming_Ziva View Post
And when you lose your connection and die (or your healer losses connection and causes a party wipe) you will probably be at the front of the line complaining and trying to get customer service to restore your character.

The biggest flaw with this is your comparing it to Diablo hard core. Hard core characters are separated from regular characters and they cannot play together. In order to do this, Bioware would have to create hard core servers.
Not really...once you acknowledge you are entering NiM, you accept the outcome. Granted this takes a different mindset and approach to the game, you have to be able to accept loss. Again, you do not have to do a NiM instance. You experience all content in Story and HM, the only difference is the loot you gain is worth the risk.

Other MMOs have done things like perma death open PVP and such, creating a world that you don't have a choice. This you have the choice and do not have to experience it. Most people playing this game level multiple characters anyways, and me personally would have two of the same. I would have one for experiencing all content and achievements, and one for losing in NiM.

gripenfelter's Avatar


gripenfelter
06.06.2012 , 07:35 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Mikesglory View Post
Character death no, but would definitely be all for a complete gear/inventory wipe upon death (but with incredible rewards if you survive).
Maybe that's the balance......

Codek's Avatar


Codek
06.06.2012 , 07:37 AM | #10
Good luck finding 7 - 15 other like minded individuals that will accept the idea that they will put their time and energy for the past month into your hands and hope you don't screw them over....

The less control a player has over a fight, the more reason to never want to get involved with a mechanic such as this. That's why hardcore modes only work in games such as D3 where it it possible to solo it all, and even then most players just get frustrated and quit afterwards.
~Codek