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How do Op Lockouts work?


Screaming_Ziva's Avatar


Screaming_Ziva
06.06.2012 , 03:49 AM | #1
Yesterday I had to log out after defeating Zorn and Toth in Denova. My lockouts screen says Zorn and Toth are defeated but the other bosses are available. What exactly does this mean if I want to finish the op now? Do I have to join a group after Zorn and Toth? Can I join a group, fight them again, but just not get loot from them?

schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
06.06.2012 , 03:51 AM | #2
It means you can't fight Z+T this week anymore for this difficulty-setting(SM and HM have separate lockouts, but 8 and 16-man share the same).
You have to join a group that starts with the 2nd boss.

Screaming_Ziva's Avatar


Screaming_Ziva
06.06.2012 , 03:53 AM | #3
So I guess I'm pretty much screwed on this op for the rest of the week then? It's hard enough finding ops groups now let alone one starting with the second boss.

amnie's Avatar


amnie
06.06.2012 , 03:53 AM | #4
yupp, basically you have to find people to do the stuff from the next fight on. best bet would problably be the same people you've done the other run with (unless you were unlucky and they finished it with someone else)

I definitely feel your pain, too, it's a real pain and I have no idea who came up with this 'glorious' idea of lockouts

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
06.06.2012 , 04:12 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by amnie View Post
I definitely feel your pain, too, it's a real pain and I have no idea who came up with this 'glorious' idea of lockouts
I can only guess that it's a natural continuation of the now-defunct Flashpoint lockouts. Operations are (generally) harder and (generally) drop superiour gear. I'd personally like to extend lockouts for Operations, but I doubt that functionality is going to be added to the game (reason being: my unit needs to train in EC and I'd like to be able to train them on the bosses in a set way. Our EC unit runs Mondays, so it's not like we can just jump in and do the next boss another day.)

amnie's Avatar


amnie
06.06.2012 , 04:18 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I can only guess that it's a natural continuation of the now-defunct Flashpoint lockouts. Operations are (generally) harder and (generally) drop superiour gear. I'd personally like to extend lockouts for Operations, but I doubt that functionality is going to be added to the game (reason being: my unit needs to train in EC and I'd like to be able to train them on the bosses in a set way. Our EC unit runs Mondays, so it's not like we can just jump in and do the next boss another day.)
natural in which regard? I know other games have done it before, but not the ones I used to play, so it's far from natural to me. (ok ok lotro had some sort-of-lock-out system but I never actually found myself thinking 'damn I wanted to do CD 7 days in a row')

it's just super frustrating when you always have to either not finish an instance, or you jump in on a 'clean up' run when the first one didn't finish. and when you're on an almost empty server you are usually just out of luck. we have a few more people than 8 who are willing to do raids usually, but not enough people to fill either a 16 man or do two raids, thanks to the lock outs. so far the only 'solution' is to try denova with a group, eventually finish or try to with a few other people on the next day or a few days later.. and do 'gear up' runs for EV and KP in-between. but some people have done these so often that I definitely understand when they are tired of it

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
06.06.2012 , 04:29 AM | #7
Other than saying 'because that other game did it', there's no real explanation that I can see, I can only assume that Bioware has it as an extension of the Flashpoint lockout system that they've now removed. Perhaps if I had their reasoning as for why the system is how it is I could argue it better, but I don't, I just have to suffer with the fact of it.

I feel your pain with being unable to fill two 8-man groups. It's the goal of my Alliance to be able to run simultaneous 8-man Operations, something we've been able to achieve only once, when 1.2 first came out. At present we only have a regular group of people who sign up for Operations and the larger majority of the Alliance either don't sign up for apathy or physical inability to be present.

My unit's progression problems aren't with the lockout system existing, but rather not being able to extend the lock-outs past the weekly reset. Of course I'm just one of many Operations leaders who are likely finding problems with the system, but until Bioware actually wants to sit down and have a discussion about this (I don't have Twitter or Facebook so can't actually communicate with any working for Bioware, as they don't read the forums), all we can do is futily discuss this and work-arounds for it.

It does have a negative impact on PUG groups or certain progression units and this is a problem, but what's the alternative? Having daily lockouts with no chance of extending them? Having the Ops leader set when the lock-out resets? I can imagine both could be abused.

Screaming_Ziva's Avatar


Screaming_Ziva
06.06.2012 , 07:19 AM | #8
I guess I understand why there are lockouts (they don't want you farming the first boss over and over again) but I think it could have been implemented a little better.

For example, I finished Zorn and Toth yesterday. Let me join a group and kill them again but lock me out of the loot instead of the entire boss fight. There was also a chest a little past them that had BH comms in it so lock me out of that chest as well since I already looted it this week.

Leovinus's Avatar


Leovinus
06.07.2012 , 02:58 PM | #9
Related question. I'm a sub. If I got a lockout for Z&T, but will be running with another group that has none, can they join ME after Z&T, or do they have to kill Z&T as well? And related to that, if that's possible, would the rest of the raid I ran with for my Z&T kill still have their own access to the rest of the zone, or would I be effectively stealing their zone?

chaosme's Avatar


chaosme
06.08.2012 , 01:40 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Leovinus View Post
Related question. I'm a sub. If I got a lockout for Z&T, but will be running with another group that has none, can they join ME after Z&T, or do they have to kill Z&T as well? And related to that, if that's possible, would the rest of the raid I ran with for my Z&T kill still have their own access to the rest of the zone, or would I be effectively stealing their zone?
From what I understand, you can't enter the same op phase if you have different locks than the op leader.

So in your case, if you form the op group with a bunch of people with no locks, when you enter Denova, Z&T will be dead and your group will progress onwards from the trash pulls after Z&T. If someone with no locks is the op leader, then you won't be allowed to enter.

The lockouts apply to each individual player, so for your last question, each of them will still have their lockout for Z&T until it resets and the above points apply when they form a group with other people.

P.S. The above explanation is based on what I know from the locks in LOTRO as the system here appears to be similar. I haven't had much chance running with other people with different locks before but this seem to fit into how it works.