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Class changes and balance in Game Update 1.3

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class changes and balance in Game Update 1.3
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

humanyt's Avatar


humanyt
06.07.2012 , 01:10 PM | #271
I really disagree with some of the changes made in 1.3 concerning tank assassins,

I started playing as a tank assassin in pre-launch, leveled up as a tank assassin and still play operations and pvp, it was a pain to go do flashpoints and try to get properly geared.

I do not understand why you are nerfing the tank assassin, classes cannot be balanced as the abilities; survivability, damage all depend of the gear and the stats we put on our character. It also depends if you went and got all the datacrons which gave me a nice willpower and endurance and strenght buff on my stats....

TAKE EVERY FACTOR INTO CONSIDERATION;
-the pc used by the player
-key bindings configuration
-gamer mouse or keyboard used
-internet connection
-player IQ or reflex responsivness
-number of hours played on character
-profession skill: biochem, artifice, etc... each has a different buff or bonus

The healing generated by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced by approximately 50%.

50% reduction??? are you mad that is huge...we do not heal ourselves that much since our rotation as tank does not allow us to be striking with our lightsaber at every turn.
The ability is specific, dark charge grants my lightsaber attacks 50% chance to drain a minimal amount of life!
50% chance...this means not at every attack..and as I said before I can't use my lightsaber attacks at every turn in my tank rotation.

The healing generated by Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness has been reduced to 8% in total (down from 12% in total).

Again 4% reduction for harnessed darkness which is a backup heal for when you reach 3 stacks, it heals for not much and I have 24k hp in operations so that would be roughly a maximum 3000hp heal every 30 seconds over a 3 seconds casting time and that is if we have time to cast it! It heals for 3% of max health for every tick of lighning which is a 3 seconds cast not many ticks there.
Some fights in operations or even in pvp do not allow you such luxury, and to be very useful, it is best to use it when recklessness and overcharge saber is up., which again have longer cooldowns.
I say it again this ability is a small backup healing ability.

The armor provided by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced to +115% (down from 150%).

There we go again, reduce the armor provided by dark charge stance to the light armor wearer, what an insult this is...35% reduction....read again light armor not heavy armor...light armor...light!!!!
I have full rakata gear and I only have 6782 armor rating...that's not much...take some more away what crap!

Juggernauts and powertechs have heavy armor, thus more armor rating then assassins, they have more defense rating which in return grants them more range/melee-dodge/deflect...meaning they don't get hit by melee or range more often...which in comparison a tank assassin does get hit almost everytime by range and melee, and if you don't have high enough shield rating you won't shield and absorb damage that often.

If you have 50% shield rating and 50% absorb rating, well 50% of attacks will be absorbed at 50%....what happens to the 50% of when you can't shield and absorb attacks? you'll die since assassins won't have enough armor nor healing capabilities.

And one thing that is funny is that tankassins have wither and discharge and mass mind control and lacerate, these abilities are great to aoe tank multiple adds, and with changes in 1.3 tell us how are we going to do that now? We should just wear paper instead, we could at least do some nice drawings on it because lets be straight the inquisitor gear is ugly with cone shoulders and fishtails and bullhorns.

I am sorry but bioware is putting forth some MAJOR NERF on tank assassins, nerfs that do not seem like they are destined for operations or flashpoints, but more over for pvp, and again pvp abilities all depend of the gear and expertise and how well you play your character, if my assassin is specced as tank and has full battle master and war hero TANK gear with well over 1100k expertise, you will have much difficulty killing me, but it does not mean I do lots of damage in return.
I say again I wear PVP TANK GEAR, for what purpose? to have survivability in pvp, not to do damage!!!!
If I am a good player and know how to play my class should we nerf my pc? my graphics card? my brain, my reflexes?

I have read in other posts people talking about assassins tank having stealth and ccs, wow!!!
can you tank while stealthed?
do you call electrocute and spike which are 2 seconds cc...crowd control, and by the way they do not apply to elites and champions. a 8second whirlwind is not a big crowd control either.
-juggernauts have crowd controls also (force choke), as well as a charge that assassins dont have
-powertechs have crowd controls, charges and pull in tank spec as well

I also have a powertech tank, he has much more survivability then my assassin and deals much more damage then my assassin...I am sorry but bioware do your homework or risk losing all tank assassins all over since they will become useless, risk losing players like me also since I love playing my assassin more then my other characters.

I also do lots of pvp with my tank assassin and somehow marauders are very difficult to be killed and manage to kill me very easily...
have you ever gone against a gunslinger or operative? they seem to have an infinite number of stuns?
so do your homework people...don't listen to people crying who don't know how to play the game.

What are you priorityzing in swtor PVE or PVP?
if you want to go either way have pvp servers affected by some of the changes you wish to balance for pvp,
and have pve servers only be affected by changes made for pve. MAKE IT FAIR FOR EVERYONE!!!
Don't kill your PVE players with such changes to accomodate some, and I say only SOME of your PVP cryers.

I took quite some time to understand my stats on my assassin, I balanced my stats for defense not damage and still juggernauts and powertechs tanks have more survivability then assassins on equal gear. We have different abilities and that is what is fun to complement each other, now you're just going to make tankassins completely useless for all your new content.

I also want to point out that before nerfing the assassin I posted tickets many times about disjunction in the tank tree not functionning and it was never fixed so get your priorities straight before you nerf make sure everything works.

a frustrated tankassin who might quit the game because of bad game management

adam_wan's Avatar


adam_wan
06.07.2012 , 01:23 PM | #272
Quote: Originally Posted by darthwretch View Post
u guys need to fix the force replenishment ability of sage/sorcerer heal spec as thoose classes are atm the crappiest healers in the game unlike operatives/scoundral or bountyhunter/commando they arent able to hold up theyr force during massive and extreme healing moments. the health for force ability all fine and all but the force u gain from that u will loose emidiatly on your healing,unlike the scans and stuff the other healing classes have! my main is an operative and never had energy problems with operations/flashpoint for healing on sage however all you end up is being low on force! ive checked internet and asked many sages and sorcerers and they all tell me the same,there is no good rotation for thoose healers as after 1.2 that class got screwed up bigtime!!! same goes for the pvpgear!
thx bioware for leting me grind my pvp gear for the first 3months and then make it completly obsolete from in 1go after 1,2!cheers for that i wont forget it! lost allot of subscribers with that one isnt it???
If you want anybody to listen to you, you should learn at least fifth grade grammar and punctuation.

Theninjafuzz's Avatar


Theninjafuzz
06.07.2012 , 01:27 PM | #273
You really, really, really need to tone done the tankassin nerfs. They are extreme and unwarranted for PvE tanks. 50% off of dark charge I can live with, but 4% of lightning? and 115% armor increase off of LIGHT ARMOR? We're all going to get merc'd. You didn't slightly nerf 3 aspects of tankassin slightly, you smacked it with a 8lb nerf sledge hammer and it's really not alright.

Find a way to balance tankassins in DPS PvP gear without killing the PvE tanks and try again.
A computer beat me at chess once, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
Sylvein 50 Marauder, Stunt 50 Mercenary, Syltrain 50 Assassin, Relek 50 Operative
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post
That sounds logical... generally not the way I see people posting around here.

Leatherbeak's Avatar


Leatherbeak
06.07.2012 , 01:59 PM | #274
**yawn** Sorc here.... nothing for me. whatever... this game is really becoming a boring ghost town.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.

NerOTheUnloved's Avatar


NerOTheUnloved
06.07.2012 , 02:02 PM | #275
I hear ppl on my server QQing that marauders arent getting nerfed. What is so wrong with a straight DPS class being more power then another class? So they are more powerful in PvP? SW:ToR isnt mainly a PvP game as far as i can tell, if you want to play a game that is based off of PvP then goto Guild Wars 2. I'm tired of these mmo companies making all kinds of changes to the game and classes to make those that PvP a lot happy for once i would like a game that is screwed up due to pvp.

Dozoku's Avatar


Dozoku
06.07.2012 , 02:33 PM | #276
They killed my shadow class and for what? because i owned people in pvp and they came here and cry about it? must you penalize my shadow tank just because i happen to be more experiences at game play than the little kids running around ? Here i thought this was a adult game with all those love scene you guys have in the companions as well as the npc along the storyline. Its ok, my 15 bucks a month will find a better game well deserving of it. This game is no MMO and pvp was the one thing that made me stay, and now i see you destroy my shadow in 1.1 and with months of practicing, changing specs to get it back to the prime days, you went in for the Kill and own it once again? Really? what ever happen to structure pvp? what you should have done was either one of the following.

1. Make pvp 1 and pvp 2 which means. Pvp1= Hardcore pvp, which also have a message that states only the best of player should enter this one.(you know the same crap you guys display when we join a pvp server)

Pvp 2-= players who are developing their skills should be in this one.( valor rank of 50-60)

Bio ware i am very upset and a shame of your choices in attacking the shadow while it was down, you blew my eyes out with dragon age orgins and i saw that you had much love with the gray warden which in a way kinda reminds me of a shadow.(Duncan) You clearly don't understand anything, PVP its what keeps a game alive, yes pve is fun and all that stuff, but Players cannot deny the fact that, there is much fun in owning another player.

PVP and PVE was fun before you came out with these outrage of changes . Fights use to last long and we had good times pre 1.2 and now you screw it all up GOOD JOB!!!. if you wanted to keep your Money coming your way you should have reverse every changes you have made to killed your own MMO game. Lets all have a moment of silence for the epic pre 1.2 days and also a moment of silences for the good players we lost and we definitely lose because of this monstrosity of a change to area not needed.

You know i am not no genius or anything about any but is it just me or are they making the game a little bit too easy ? hit one person then you aggro a whole team? lolz i can't believe i stayed this long, maybe it was cuz of my shadow and the all white outfit that kept me interested as well as my sage and marauder.

GOD SPEED OLD republic
RIP.

StJohnLimbo's Avatar


StJohnLimbo
06.07.2012 , 02:55 PM | #277
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
so now my shadow tank and my healing sorccerer are nerfed beyond belief.

quote:
Rather than hit armor or self-healing too hard, we’ve opted to adjust both by a much smaller amount.

The healing generated by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced by approximately 50%.
The healing generated by Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness has been reduced to 8% in total (down from 12% in total).
The armor provided by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced to +115% (down from 150%).
----------------------

you said much smaller amount yet I see a change of 50% (not small at all) and another change of 35% (again... NOT SMALL).

why cant you just increase the effectivness of armor rating? Is it because you dont want people to be playing consulars or inquisitors... unless they are dps?
This is what happens when an MMO is split between two separate entities: PVE and PVP. No MMO will ever be balanced for both sides unless it is developed around one system that can apply to both. Throwing in PVP only stats, such as expertise, only make the entire situation worse by widening the gulf. This crap needs to change in the MMO game making industry.

Stokeherwells's Avatar


Stokeherwells
06.07.2012 , 03:29 PM | #278
the shadow/tank needs the armor nerf the heals out not the armor, heals are for healers not tanks armor is for tanks, if theres no armor theres no tank, fail bioware

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
06.07.2012 , 04:03 PM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by Stokeherwells View Post
the shadow/tank needs the armor nerf the heals out not the armor, heals are for healers not tanks armor is for tanks, if theres no armor theres no tank, fail bioware
Ideally, the Shadow/Assassin tank should have a decrease in both armor and heals, with a significant buff and "smart" application of Defense's dodge/parry/block. Along with an active deflection of ranged attacks back at the caster/shooter.

I might actually dust off my 'sin, then.
Allix Crowe - Vanguard Trooper -/- Ethavan Crowe - Smuggler Gunslinger -/- Malrath Crowe - Powertech Bounty Hunter -/- Boslo - Jedi Knight Sentinel -/- Jiao-gen Pall - Jedi Knight Guardian -/- Landen Tanarr - Jedi Consular Sage -/- Vaelyth Kinti-kaar- Sith Warrior Juggernaut -/- Oteln'erose'thu - Imperial Agent Sniper -/- Zandur Tuum - Cathar Knight

VTaltos's Avatar


VTaltos
06.07.2012 , 04:30 PM | #280
I've been able to survive as a ST with the heals. Thinking on your part (BioWare) that this makes the classes equally survivable is enormous bullsheet. I busted my backside building this character up...and let's look...you just nerfed by armor by ~20%, self heals, etc. This is a completely unfair, excessive change to the character and class, at this late hour. Given all the effort I've put into focusing on tanking...hours and hours and hours of effort on gear, etc...and now I'm just finally getting to be able to run HM Operations, and have you pull this? Go screw yourselves, likely a departing player at this point,

Quote: Originally Posted by Boarg View Post
The Shadow/Assassin tank survivability changes went too far for high-end PvE tanking with the armor multiplier downgrade.

Shadows were already pretty much considered the worst choice for end-game PvE tanking because they are the easiest to get gibbed. They had the least armor, the little self heals don't mean much when you're taking big boss damage, and their shield mechanic isn't as reliable.

PvE guilds were already prioritizing the other two tank AC's. After this, most of the high-end guilds will disqualify them altogether from main-tank roles.