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Class changes and balance in Game Update 1.3

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class changes and balance in Game Update 1.3
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Diesl's Avatar


Diesl
06.06.2012 , 01:08 PM | #121
Actually they do get something new, They get an increase in Threat generation and thier AOE does not break CC any more. Same update the other 2 get. I mean I have seen Sin tanks with 30k HP and have same gear setup as I do and I only have 22k. I hope the math is right and that reducing the armor from 150 to 115 is correct, im sure they didnt just pick a number. lol but who knows.

Quote: Originally Posted by zegota View Post
What in the hell are you talking about? Reread the post. They massively nerfed Shadows. Massively. To the point where they are no longer viable as main tanks in PvE. They received both a huge healing nerf and a huge armor nerf. They were not improved in any way, and they absolutely are the weakest tank class now.

There is no logical reason any group would want a Shadow tank now, and I'm probably going to unsub because of it. I have no interest in rerolling or respeccing to DPS.

lexiekaboom's Avatar


lexiekaboom
06.06.2012 , 01:09 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by Boarg View Post
The Shadow/Assassin tank survivability changes went too far for high-end PvE tanking with the armor multiplier downgrade.

Shadows were already pretty much considered the worst choice for end-game PvE tanking because they are the easiest to get gibbed. They had the least armor, the little self heals don't mean much when you're taking big boss damage, and their shield mechanic isn't as reliable.

PvE guilds were already prioritizing the other two tank AC's. After this, most of the high-end guilds will disqualify them altogether from main-tank roles.
As a raid leader AND a tanking shadow, I completely agree. No shadow will EVER tank my raids again, even in an off tanks role. I have 37% damage reduction in black hole gear after this change, a smuggler could tank better then me. I'm just glad I'm the only shadow tank on our team so I don't have to boot anyone but myself.

For anyone who has a copy of a shadow on test PLEASE log in and tank spec and play it so they get numbers. It's SO broken I can't see it go live if they see that shadows die to hard mode flash point bosses in black hole gear (which they do now).

lexiekaboom's Avatar


lexiekaboom
06.06.2012 , 01:11 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by mariioow View Post
well they actually said that now shadows are going to be as strong as heavy armor tanks they aren't going to be the weakest class they are just going to be as good tanking as a guardian/juggernaut or vanguard/powertech
These numbers assume all "self buffs" and similar gear (mostly black hole, some rakata, modded ideally) and are based on characters live on test right now.

Shadow:

Damage reduction: 37%
Shield: 54%
Absorb: 43%
Defense: 21% (ONLY works on white damage. Boss special attacks have accuracy and hit 100% of the time)

Vanguard:

Damage reduction: 48%
Shield: 65%
Absorb: 80%
Defense: 13%

Bang up job. You can CLEARLY see the shadow is just as good as the heavy armor tank.

SvnStrSlm's Avatar


SvnStrSlm
06.06.2012 , 01:13 PM | #124
Dear BioWare,

Please o please continue these types of articles. It is nice to have the information on why things are done to the classes. In addition it helps us understand how the class is designed to play. I wish they would release more dev diaries like this.

Valkiris's Avatar


Valkiris
06.06.2012 , 01:18 PM | #125
Worst changes ever... More buffs to snipers and mercs? So exactly how long are we going to continue pretending you don't specifically play those classes? Or that smug/operatives aren't the most rediculously overpowered class in the game?

... Never? Cool.

mamosh's Avatar


mamosh
06.06.2012 , 01:22 PM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by Goldenstar View Post
I think the armor nerf on Shadows/Sins is a little overkill. They didn't have a problem holding threat before, but they're definitely going to have trouble staying UP now. The healing nerf is definitely justified for PvP, but i'd suggest reverting the armor nerf. A "tank" spec that onloy has 15% more armor than the LIGHTEST armor class (dps sin/sorcerer) doesn't seem right.
they should of left the armor like it is and make the heal affected by being in pvp like every other heal is problem solved and tank sins can be the same in pve
Spoiler

Valkiris's Avatar


Valkiris
06.06.2012 , 01:24 PM | #127
You designed this game for PVE initially... it's what every MMO company does because PVP can't really get tested until launch. So to heal and DPS those insane bosses you need outrageous high numbered DPS and heals. Oh but that completely breaks PVP!?! And you are completely unwilling to go back and nerf all the mobs and bosses so they don't require such?! No way...

Operatives can have 3 or 4 characters on them and spam their heals and laugh!?! Merc healers can pop a shield and return their hp from 1% all the way to full? Nah they aren't overpowered at all. You know exactly what you are doing...

Dozoku's Avatar


Dozoku
06.06.2012 , 01:26 PM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by murcans View Post
Simple dou you know why people select tankassasin to pvp because deception tree is assassin has the worst dps all other damage class and if you don't have pocket healer in your group you will die easily or you have to be stealth and heal and stealth and heal yourself without killing anyone in war zones I suggest you go target dummies and test deception dps and compare other dps classes any good ranged class will kill you in 2 or 3 shots in warzones
Bro i think shadow/assassin just went to being the worst class in the game second to operatives. I honestly don't know if they trolling or their serious. how can you make a class armor raiting from 150% to 115%? seriously we are going to be hit like a truck by marauders, gun slingers, bounty hunters. all they do is listen to cryers which is like 25% of the population, it is truly a red day for the Shadows and they truly going to go from 1.3m players to 40000-60000 players, somewhere along those lines. they simply just made my shadow and operative look trurly disgusting, now no more 1v1 or 3v1.

If Yoda was here he would have stated

clearly trolling you are, wrong path you have chosen. Listen to the experiances players you have not, fail you have.

TheRedNalroni's Avatar


TheRedNalroni
06.06.2012 , 01:26 PM | #129
I dont think this is a major Nerf at all But I do have some queries

Im Mainly in Rakata/Blackhole gear and Have 7003 Armour With Dark Charge active (+39.33% Damage Reduction)
Now Without it at 3047 Armour its 22% damage reduction.
Coming down from +150% to +115% works out at a little over 2% Damage reduction loss. Not sure why if Its only 2% that its worth Nerfing at all....

Multi mob target trash tanks will start taking its toll, making all other Tanks damage mitigation far superior. So Assassins will be the worst of the Trash tankers as we dont get to shield enough of those attacks on multi mob tanking. Because that 2% damage mitigation multiplied by say 5 mobs is taking 10% more damage making it pretty much unhealable at operation level, not that anyone should be taking 5 mobs, but hope this is taken into consideration as a multiple affect from each additional mob being tanked. A Significant difference.

Likewise Healing nerfs, renders the healing ability too weak for multiple mob tanking as doesnt displace the increased damage from multi mob tanking. In Operations and Flashpoints, multiple Mob tanking is required. Its not often possible to CC enough of the packs of 7 or 8 in an 8 man Operation. This will mean that Raid leaders will look far more towards the Non Assassin tanks in those operations as the healing will just be too difficult to maintain on an Assassin tank

The Healing with the nerf will only compensate for one mob for the increased damage taken from the armour nerf (if always used at 3 stacks maximising uptime which is never always the case with Force regeneration and discounts the reactive necessity of tanking)

lexiekaboom's Avatar


lexiekaboom
06.06.2012 , 01:32 PM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by Valkiris View Post
You designed this game for PVE initially... it's what every MMO company does because PVP can't really get tested until launch. So to heal and DPS those insane bosses you need outrageous high numbered DPS and heals. Oh but that completely breaks PVP!?! And you are completely unwilling to go back and nerf all the mobs and bosses so they don't require such?! No way...

Operatives can have 3 or 4 characters on them and spam their heals and laugh!?! Merc healers can pop a shield and return their hp from 1% all the way to full? Nah they aren't overpowered at all. You know exactly what you are doing...
QFT

A single healer is balanced so that it can keep a tank alive vs. a mob that has about 2000 to 3000 DPS (a hard mode flash point boss) and can spike 10K or so, all the while healing a group of splash damage.

Then you put that same character in PVP vs people who can do 1200 dps and expect everything will just play out.