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0/18/23 build

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.04.2012 , 07:57 PM | #1
Let me preface this by saying I'm not an expert by any stretch and I'm looking for advice/input.

My other toon (Commando) recently made it to 50 and I've been working through early endgame content (dailies and a couple of world bosses). Them the "call of the alt" hit me and I've been wanting to go back to my sage (currently at 43). It's been a while so I wanted to relook at my build choices.

This is what I'm currently working toward. I would welcome suggestions / comments.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...bMkZcrcRsMkM.1

Here are some of the considerations behind that build:

1. I'm not a pvp'er, this is only for pve.
2. I like the force regen of Concentration / Telekinetic Effusion.
3. I want to be able to solo dailies, so Pining Resolve / Containment becomes very useful.
4. The synergy between Weaken Mind, PoM, TK Throw and Disturbance seems to work very well for me.
5. Kinetic collapse seems to be useful for PvE, even on boss battles (if the adds come after me)
6. Same with Force Wake -- having a stun on Force Wave seems to useful to pass up.
7. I've dropped most of the damage reducing balance talents so I could get Force Suppression / Drain Thoughts for the DoT potential. This means more glass cannon, but I think I can live with it.
8. I've abandoned TK Wave because without Tidal Force, TK Momentum and Tremors, it doesn't seem to pack enough punch.

What do you think?

eventidephoenix's Avatar


eventidephoenix
06.05.2012 , 04:44 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by JeffKretz View Post
Let me preface this by saying I'm not an expert by any stretch and I'm looking for advice/input.

My other toon (Commando) recently made it to 50 and I've been working through early endgame content (dailies and a couple of world bosses). Them the "call of the alt" hit me and I've been wanting to go back to my sage (currently at 43). It's been a while so I wanted to relook at my build choices.

This is what I'm currently working toward. I would welcome suggestions / comments.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...bMkZcrcRsMkM.1

Here are some of the considerations behind that build:

1. I'm not a pvp'er, this is only for pve.
2. I like the force regen of Concentration / Telekinetic Effusion.
3. I want to be able to solo dailies, so Pining Resolve / Containment becomes very useful.
4. The synergy between Weaken Mind, PoM, TK Throw and Disturbance seems to work very well for me.
5. Kinetic collapse seems to be useful for PvE, even on boss battles (if the adds come after me)
6. Same with Force Wake -- having a stun on Force Wave seems to useful to pass up.
7. I've dropped most of the damage reducing balance talents so I could get Force Suppression / Drain Thoughts for the DoT potential. This means more glass cannon, but I think I can live with it.
8. I've abandoned TK Wave because without Tidal Force, TK Momentum and Tremors, it doesn't seem to pack enough punch.

What do you think?
1. Let me start off by saying this is very similar to my PvP build, which cannot be a good thing for PvE because in PvP I tend to sacrifice DPS for control and survival...

2. Not necessary in PvE, with set bonuses if you go balance spec your force management is more than ample...

3. Wasting points on pinning resolve, you lose points you could put in say Mental Scarring. Your boss fights are gonna suck =\

Containment I'd say is a good convenience to have, and it's sufficient for handling dailies alone.

4. definitely

5. No... I don't think so... Bosses are immune to incapacitating effects, making them pretty useless... If ads come after you you could kick them away with force wave, containment, or force speed away to buy you time. Points wasted there. Same with 6. Force wake. These 4 points can come in really valueable. Tanks are supposed to grab ads in some situations where team member's jobs is to survive. The bubble alone is a sufficient """defensive cooldown"""

7. Definitely

8. For the PvP spec I still keep it for versatility, which is not very useful in ops because ops are very predictable as long as you're familiar with the mechanics and what the rest of your group members can do. So yea.

The 1/12/28 spec is by far the most popular spec due to the points highlighted above. ^^

Ewgal's Avatar


Ewgal
06.05.2012 , 04:57 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by eventidephoenix View Post
The 1/12/28 spec is by far the most popular spec due to the points highlighted above. ^^
The main reason for going for hybrid is its simplicity of rotation. Pre 1.2.2 it used to be possible to gain benefits from double dipping using this spec, but those days are gone now. Post 1.2.2 I think many choose a deep TK or balance build as they are more fun to play.
May the farce be with you

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
06.05.2012 , 11:11 AM | #4
Thanks very much for your input.

I had one question on this:
Quote: Originally Posted by eventidephoenix View Post
2. Not necessary in PvE, with set bonuses if you go balance spec your force management is more than ample...
According to torhead, the set bonus for dps sage is to reduce the cost of Disturbance / TK Throw by 2.

http://www.torhead.com/item/2ntyY3R/...ters-vestments

Is that correct or a mistake the torhead data mining? Reducing a 30 force cost down to 28 seems to be insignificant, especially compared to the commando set bonus which effectively makes High Impact Bolt free.

Cempa's Avatar


Cempa
06.21.2012 , 08:42 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by JeffKretz View Post
Let me preface this by saying I'm not an expert by any stretch and I'm looking for advice/input.

My other toon (Commando) recently made it to 50 and I've been working through early endgame content (dailies and a couple of world bosses). Them the "call of the alt" hit me and I've been wanting to go back to my sage (currently at 43). It's been a while so I wanted to relook at my build choices.

This is what I'm currently working toward. I would welcome suggestions / comments.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...bMkZcrcRsMkM.1

Here are some of the considerations behind that build:

1. I'm not a pvp'er, this is only for pve.
2. I like the force regen of Concentration / Telekinetic Effusion.
3. I want to be able to solo dailies, so Pining Resolve / Containment becomes very useful.
4. The synergy between Weaken Mind, PoM, TK Throw and Disturbance seems to work very well for me.
5. Kinetic collapse seems to be useful for PvE, even on boss battles (if the adds come after me)
6. Same with Force Wake -- having a stun on Force Wave seems to useful to pass up.
7. I've dropped most of the damage reducing balance talents so I could get Force Suppression / Drain Thoughts for the DoT potential. This means more glass cannon, but I think I can live with it.
8. I've abandoned TK Wave because without Tidal Force, TK Momentum and Tremors, it doesn't seem to pack enough punch.

What do you think?
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#60...RbMMZcMcRsrk.1
“When I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master.”

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
06.23.2012 , 01:57 AM | #6
The 0/18/23 build isn't really popular post 1.2 because you no longer have to worry about force pool issues with a hybrid build. The only reason people were running out of force with the hybrid build was because they were making heavy use of Presence of Mind proc'd TK Waves, which eat force fast. I've run the 1/12/28 spec in end game raids and I don't run low on force unless I have to make heavy use of self-heals and force armor, which shouldn't be an issue if you are running with a decent healer. So you don't need TK Effusion (1 point in your build).

I also agree with the other comments about some of the wasted points here. Force Wake (2 points) and Kinetic Collapse (1 point) are pointless in PvE because bosses are immune to them and the trash mobs that aren't immune shouldn't give you trouble anyway. Those are PvP skills. Concentration (2 points) is also a waste because Disturbance hits like a wet noodle and is a DPS loss from simply spamming TK Throw. This is true even with a Presence of Mind buff on Disturbance. And as mentioned before, force efficiency shouldn't be an issue.

That is six points you don't need in the TK tree. This is why people typically are putting 12 points in the TK tree as opposed to 18. Those six points added to Assertion, Mental Scarring and Psychic Absorption will give you more damage and survivability. Pinning resolve is also not really necessary. You don't need to lift weak mobs. The lower cooldown on force stun is OK, but it's not worth giving up the tier 5 Balance talents. When you are running end game PvE content, those buffed DoTs are critical to your DPS output. Mental Scarring and Assertion make your DoTs really effective.

If you really like the TK tree and don't want to run the 1/12/28 hybrid, just go all out in the TK tree. Full TK is perfectly viable, and it's fun to play.