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Horizontal scaling, a new type of progression.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
Horizontal scaling, a new type of progression.

Pavixx's Avatar

06.11.2012 , 03:11 PM | #21
Step into my web...

svartalfimposter's Avatar

06.11.2012 , 03:44 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Pavixx View Post
People will often bring up that there is no reason to play a game when you aren't grinding gear.
Bingo! This is the one massive argument I've had for years that MMOs don't need to offer incentives to do everything. You don't have to be forever grinding points of some kind.
Quote: Originally Posted by killgorde
a great PvP game requires the devs only to facilitate and improve the environment within which the players themselves create their own content.

Alphasgimaone's Avatar

06.11.2012 , 03:54 PM | #23
I totally approve this message.

This idea that theme park MMOs have to be vertical scaled in order to survive is erroneous. In fact an argument to the contrary could easily be made.

There are plenty of other ways to string the carrot to the stick with out having to resort to gear grinding. Dozens of suggestions have already been made here.

Same goes with adding new content. Get creative and don't rely on a tired, antiquated technique.

What this game should have been from the get go was: 1-49: vertical co-op. 50: Horizontal sandbox.

People have been saying it since early in beta. The story mode offers an excellent leveling experience. Now it's time to fix it so endgame offers an unique experience of its own. Implement the new plant and regress Illum into true sandbox planets. And for God's sake, get rid of expertise.
SWTOR PvP: now running on the Ellipsis engine.

Pavixx's Avatar

06.11.2012 , 05:11 PM | #24
I like the idea of 1-49 vertical scaling but I think it should be more story driven and revolve less around random filler quests.

at 50 there should be a level 50 class story chapter that slowly gives you your level 50 gear as you progress. once you're done that you are equally well geared as any other level 50 and now you can start making your character your own by fine tuning your look, feel, abilities, etc.
Step into my web...

finetop's Avatar

06.11.2012 , 07:16 PM | #25

Gear grind is bad design, boring, and unfulfilling. I don't like beating up on people weaker. Even ground is skill game.

federdr's Avatar

06.11.2012 , 07:54 PM | #26
nice idea, please listen Bioware, just a little.

Trispast's Avatar

06.11.2012 , 09:24 PM | #27
I like the idea, some of the boss fights in this game are great, it would be a huge waste to see them ignored.

alexzk's Avatar

06.11.2012 , 11:05 PM | #28
Good idea, at least time spending here will have sence, unlike now, why should I grind best if it will be new lelvel cap soon and best will be common.
Unique and best things must be unique and best. I quit 3 games already just because of it - each couple months there is new level cap and new gear and new time spend for the same grind. Excuse me but when to play? :/ (SWTOR looked promising until i hit 50 - now I see same grind )

However horizontal scale brings new problem for developers - if we have static gear how to add new content? Well, you will have to think a lot here, instead adding more xp and power to boss you will have to develope new killing tactics and abilities for mobs.
And dont be scared - people will not complain it is too hard just because they will kill for titles and fun and not for better gear. Actually I think it will take months before people will want something new. Because each new run is same hard as before on the same boss.

Also you can expand game by adding new skills to class tree (aka new lvl cap) but it can be learned only by doing activities. For example, If you killed hard boss or killed 200 enemy trooppers in one day you've learned new tactics. But level remains 50 in fact. Important to have couple alternatives like you can learn A through killing boss or B and C doing pvp. And better to get those random like RE do now especially for PVP skills or by long-long quest. Also you can unlock +1 skill into existing tree if you closed all OPs during 4 days for example. You can repeat it next month again up-to 3 times - so we have 3 lvl caps.

And next bosses may relay on those new skills added, like you can beat him using A or B and C. So ultimate new content can be explorered by "skilled" person in both sences.
Something like "Dragon Slayer passive - now You can see the weakness of Dragons. Outgoing dmg to dragons is increased by 200%". or "Assasin defence - by fighting assasins you've learned their technique, +2% to defence chance".
It can be mixex, for example if you're biochem 400 and killed rakghoul champion you learn new recipe - adrenal of rakghoul rage etc. If you survived under continous attack of 5 ppl during 1 minute you've unlocked "infinite calm = +50% defence chance for 15 secs", a lot of to imagine here. You see the point.

Old characters will have some advantages over new but not big or usefull in some situations only. Almsot same as current legacy system do. Maybe it can be added to legacy not to single class tree. Your choise.

Defdaddy's Avatar

06.12.2012 , 07:01 AM | #29
Like someone said before there are pro's and con's to both.

Frankly, I am growing tired of hearing people complain about a "PvP grind". This PvP grind is virtually non-existant unless you are grinding War Hero right now before ranked Warzones are implemented due to having to convert WZ comms. The difference between War Hero and Battlemaster is MINIMAL.

As the community seems to agree it is not difficult to get full BM in a week. If you cant deal with getting your butt kicked for a week before playing on an even level then I am surprised you play MMO's at all. The QQ'ing has never been louder and it has never been easier to get battlemaster.

And honestly as a voice of reason I still had fun PvP'ing when I first became 50 and I was grinding Gear Bags which took ALOT longer to gear up. PvP is all about adapting, when PvP actually was grinding for gear I still managed to be a positive force on my team (be the turret defender on alderaan), Kite players away from objective points and help finish off players with low health in a group fight and focus on getting into a good passing position in Huttball. If you have protection get out of LoS and SPAM the Hell out of it---that is a great help to your team and you dont need gear to do it and Help with Stuns.

All of the above is fun and very helpful to the team. Stop expecting to do what you did and play the same way as levels 40 - 49. Believe it or not that week or so of getting your *** kicked WILL make you a better player and LETS BE HONEST. 50 PvP requires far more skill and tactics as a tea, to be successfull then the low brackets typical everyman just try to smash who is in front of you.

alexzk's Avatar

06.12.2012 , 07:26 AM | #30
yes, that's a key point "when u got 50" [1st time]

I made my first char on other server at Feb. It was fun before 50 and after. Next char after legacy update I was a bit lazy to gear. When I re-rolled to other server and made same char as 1st I'm just borried to do same things again. Like 2nd job.

And some people want to play 8 characters...
If they will do level 52 and some WH-2 set and same grind for it, I will not do. It's enough for me of current 3 times. I don't want to do that each couple months :/ I want fair equal fight That is fun.