So according to Bioware...

Sorry, took an arrow to the knee.

I took the liberty of writing what you'll be saying 6 months from now

And 12 months from now...

Please, keep telling us how many days you have left and what other game you can't wait to come out, we really care

u took the time to quote him/her, so you must care as do I, hence I quoted you lol

Where did i say take my word on anything, they have said it themselves several times and the guy says it again in this article. Bioware does not just count PAYING subs. Youre just like bioware, trying to twist facts around to make yourself not look bad and youre only making it worse.

Fair enough

Except that it can have something to do with what's reported as 'subscription numbers', in much the same way that (assuming that EA isn't just blatantly lying) trials failing to convert to subscriptions can cause reports of 'falling subscriptions', even though those trials aren't, technically speaking, 'subscriptions'. So he was correct to mention it as one of the variables that could have an impact and you have to be smart about when talking to the press.

The problem is that you seem to be, at the very least, strongly implying, if not saying outright, that Mr. Lusinchi is being less than honest and/or employing spin in this interview. My reading of it is that he simply isn't. He's being perfectly straight-up and honest in saying that there's many variables about subscriber numbers and how, exactly you measure them. You, yourself, even list some of those variables, as I'll point out below.

Here's the variables I was talking about above. If you're running an MMOG, do you base your subscription numbers as 'subscriptions that have been active in the last thirty days', or do you use 'subscriptions that have been active in the last two weeks' or do you use 'subscriptions that have been active in the last two months'? Do you use something else entirely? Whichever you choose, it is going to affect the figure you get.

EDIT:And I should also point out that some people could consider an 'active' as simply 'there is paid-for time left on that account'. Others would consider 'active' as 'someone has logged in within the time period in question'.

But we're running into these variables again. Suppose someone has an account with playtime left on it, but has decided not to play any more. Is that an 'active subscription'? Some would say 'yes', some would say 'no' - and any reported figure for subscription numbers would change according to whether people like this were included or not. Plus, of course, you're forgetting about people on trials and such-like - you are perfectly able to play the game with them, but it is debatable whether these should be counted as 'active subscriptions'.

Oh, and, just to be clear, I'm using 'subscription numbers' as a fairly general term to mean 'whatever criteria is being used to report the current number of players in the game'.

No, I'm not taking this as hostile at all, and I hope you're not taking my comments as hostile, but it just seems to me that, generally speaking, in this thread, Mr. Lusinchi is being variously accused of employing 'spin', lying or simply being stupid for making what seems to be an accurate and honest statement, and I am honestly baffled as to why.

in an interview EA said that 1.3 million players resubed their first month, and they blame the 400K lost to casual players because they tend to not like paying sub on a monthly basis. In the latest earning call they said the same thing that they had 1.3 million paid after the first payed month. BW said on DEC. 20th that if the game stays above 500K subs they will be successful. Since they laid off employees, i will bet money that BW is probably below 500K subs. Last weeks the instance: tor edition stated that they have seen number put at 386K sub from reliable sources. This would make more sense since majority of servers have 3-30 people on fleet at peak hours. I don't think there servers can handle more than 5000 people right now. So even if there are 4 servers is very heave at peak hour i doubt they even have 5000 players on all three.. I assume that is why they are talking about mega servers. They probably have less than 25K players on at anytime and they can merge them all on 4 or 5 server and call it a mega server to PR spin it.

I care

I can feel your hate... ..donot let it blind you to the truth tho...that a paying sub is a paying sub...and if BioWare gets into the chinese market....they too will count the subs that they get there. You should not be concerned about what others half way across the world are paying to play the same game you do, because what is a small monthly income amount to you...may be a year's salary to them. Be thankful you live in a better part of the world.

I'm sorry, but this has absolutely no foundation in reality. Having complaints about a particular service or product is a far cry from saying that it is not worth buying. Those are two completely different statements and mindsets.

"Complaining" is a broad topic and absolutely includes actions such as rating a product or service poorly. However, it also includes criticisms that are constructive in nature. The distinction should be made in the intent of a complaint.

“Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”
~Winston Churchill

First off, thank you for the thoughtful reply.

I want to touch on things point by point in a brief manner as I am trying to avoid another “mega post”


Though what you are saying could very well be a factor when talking to the press, it doesn’t really have anything to do with what the OP quoted, what I quoted or any other the things I was saying. So it s not irrelevant in and of itself, it is just irrelevant to what I had to say in regards the OP and the article.
By starting off a conversation about subscriptions by adding in a distraction about box sales he is being less than honest. That said it is not the end of the world, as I said myself I would be doing the same thing if I were in his shoes, but he is doing it, has to do it because the numbers are not where they want them right now. Had he just gone with “it’s complicated” and not added the misleading reference to box sales then I wouldn’t have called it out as deceptive, just evasive. This seems to be s subject that you and I aren’t destined to agree on, and that is fine.
I think this is where you are diverging into a different conversation than the one I was having. My thoughts are as long as they say what the criteria are and use that criteria they can choose what they want…as this does not relate to what I was saying I don’t truly care, though that shouldn’t stop you from having this conversation with someone else…

If you read the section of my post you made this reply to you can clearly see what I was saying, and that it has nothing to do with what they choose to release for numbers or what criteria it is based on…it is the fact that they can accurately track their active subscriptions by consulting their server logs.

My answer, though not “aimed at you” would be quite simply that the very term “Active Subscription” contains the word “active” in it. As such an account with time left on it that is not ACTIVLY being used (not logging in) is simply not active. I would call this common sense…but I am sure that wouldn’t stop someone from wanting to quibble…and in truth it’s not worth my time for the simple reason that it would most likely just be an exercise in futility with someone who’s goal was not to discuss and form a reasonable picture as to the status or number of active subscriptions but who simply wanted to engage in distraction from and stalling of that conversation.

Beyond my answer above I would add the definition of the word from the dictionary:
sub•scrip•tion - A purchase made by signed order, as for a periodical for a specified period of time or for a series of performances.

So I would say there is no debate as to weather a trial account can be counted as an active subscription, as by its very definition a trial is not a subscription. But as I said above, that wouldn’t stop someone from wanting to quibble…and in truth it’s not worth my time for the simple reason that it would most likely just be an exercise in futility with someone who’s goal was not to discuss and form a reasonable picture as to the status or number of active subscriptions but who simply wanted to engage in distraction from and stalling of that conversation.

Well I’d say if what you mean by that is you are referring to the number of active subscriptions then we are discussing the same thing, if not then we aren’t.
Well my guess would be that just as we have “fanboiz” that believe Bioware can do no wrong we also have “haterz” that believe Bioware can do no right. Like most threads on these forums the discussion ends up being centered around the dynamic between those two poles and their most devoted adherents.

And regardless of the fact that you and I do not seem to agree on all points I wanted to take the time to say thank you for an engaging and civilized discussion, it has been quite fun and a welcome change!