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Iíve finally figured out what frustrates me about SWTOR. (It isn't that story driven)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Iíve finally figured out what frustrates me about SWTOR. (It isn't that story driven)

trussasp's Avatar


trussasp
05.31.2012 , 10:54 AM | #21
Hi Dalekjs:

Again, we're basically agreeing on story, but the problem is, you're talking about something that's not "fixable".

There's simply no way for what you would like to happen, to happen within SWTOR.

Especially given recent layoffs, etc.


I'd say to the devs, or whoever, tweak/fix the MMO/playstyle, it's about all they could possibly do to save this game at this point.


What you are saying is, essentially "get in a time machine, go back and and hire better writers"


At this point, somebody should focus on things that could possibly be addressed, is my thing...

metaldragen's Avatar


metaldragen
05.31.2012 , 11:00 AM | #22
I have a problem with your #1. You say that the "story" should revolve around the larger conflict and then you give the example of Tatooine, which is, in my opinion, the planet story with the least tie and impact on the larger conflict/story.

Spoiler


Also the side quests on the planet in most cases do not tie directly into the overarching story but they at least make a passing attempt at being relevant to the furtherance of your side's goals on that planet.

Spoiler


I won't comment on the Revan thing since I didn't play KoToR or KoToR 2.

You also mention that Flashpoints seem to be the only furtherance of the overarching story.

Spoiler


While I will agree that the agent storyline is exceptional (my main is a Sniper) and the others I have experienced to 50 (JK, SW and BH) are weaker by comparison, I don't necessarily have a problem with the ultimate bada** nature of the stories. You should feel heroic as your character.
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dalekjs's Avatar


dalekjs
05.31.2012 , 11:01 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by trussasp View Post
Hi Dalekjs:

Again, we're basically agreeing on story, but the problem is, you're talking about something that's not "fixable".

There's simply no way for what you would like to happen, to happen within SWTOR.

Especially given recent layoffs, etc.


I'd say to the devs, or whoever, tweak/fix the MMO/playstyle, it's about all they could possibly do to save this game at this point.


What you are saying is, essentially "get in a time machine, go back and and hire better writers"


At this point, somebody should focus on things that could possibly be addressed, is my thing...
Indeed! I'm not saying they should fix them though, I'm just talking about my opinion on why the story is weak, and how it fails to be a story driven game. I've written in my main post how this has caused the game to be fundamentally broken, and that the only way to fix it is to completely reboot it.

Will they do that? No. But again, the point of my thread was to air grievances, not tell them to fix it :P. I'm just basically disappointed that the story telling is so poor. We're basically left with a run of the mil WoW clone, and with all the awesome games already available, and with GW2 coming out soon, there's really no reason to stay here other than the SW skin.

I agree that the best way to fix the game now and save it from dying is to fix the gameplay, release server transfers as soon as possible, add content, fix pvp ( I really feel bad for the pvp players), and everything that's been mentioned before, I'm just disappointed that it could have been so much more.

MentalCase's Avatar


MentalCase
05.31.2012 , 11:05 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by MMornard View Post
SWTOR is KOTOR that I can play with my wife, which is exactly what I wanted. I am happy.
This. I was expecting the game to be like this from day one. Not SWG2, not WoW2, more like KOTOR3 with multi-player aspects. I really don't know how people thought it was going to be anything else.
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xandax's Avatar


xandax
05.31.2012 , 11:05 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by trussasp View Post
Hey MMornard:

I would use your post as another area the designers of SWTOR really messed up.

They should have made the levelling curve for SWTOR much much slower.

It took me maybe 6 months to hit level 60 on my first WoW guy.


People hit max. level on this game in like 3 days, which might have possibly been OK if they had tons of endgame content.
That you took 6 months in WoW is not a testament to that games slow levelling, but to how you played WoW.
Many people took way, way, less.
The ability to speak does not make you intelligent.

Stenrik's Avatar


Stenrik
05.31.2012 , 11:11 AM | #26
I can see where you're coming from, but I find myself using my imagination to fill whatever gaps the game leaves. To imagine other possibilities not given to me, to think about what my character does in the gap time when I'm not logged on.

i suppose that being imaginative makes me easy to please. Oh well, guess that means I'll just have more fun with whatever I play.

(It would be nice to customize our backstories a bit though, sort of like how GW2 does character customization where you can choose info about your character's personality and history before you even enter the game.)

ryathal's Avatar


ryathal
05.31.2012 , 11:11 AM | #27
This is a spot on description of swtor, except the revan stuff, but I didn't play either kotor so I only have to vgo on what was presented in game . The quality of their story for classes or planets makes me wonder how much they actually looked in depth at the stories other games released. Assuming they started development in 07, they really only had vanilla wow to compare to with story, and that wasn't a lot, but there were a few good gems. Since then though wow has released 3 xpacs which all really beefed up the story elements in the new content, and rift released with a strong, but uninteresting story. I don't think they ever went and checked out what their competition had done story wise from when they started creating their stories and so we got stuck with stories stuck in an 04 mindset while thegenre moved on and evolved without them.

EnzoForMe's Avatar


EnzoForMe
05.31.2012 , 11:15 AM | #28
Having beaten Kotor between 30-40 times (I stopped counting after 25 or so), I believe I am an authority on the story that takes place in that game. I unlocked every piece of dialogue, every cool item, every quest, etc. I logged twelve completions of Kotor 2, which was also a fantastic game but not quite as polished and epic.

On your point 2, I agree thoroughly. To me, Revan was a Machiavellian master politician/general and a charismatic leader. As Canderous says in Kotor 1, "It was not your fleet, nor your men, nor you valiant fight for freedom...it was the actions of one person, Revan, who won the (Mandalorian) War".

In SWTOR, Revan is portrayed as a pawn, a tool who seems to have lost all semblance of cleverness and subtlety. The FP (Foundry, was it? I can't remember) that features him actually angered me. This was not the Revan I knew.

dalekjs's Avatar


dalekjs
05.31.2012 , 11:23 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by metaldragen View Post
I have a problem with your #1. You say that the "story" should revolve around the larger conflict and then you give the example of Tatooine, which is, in my opinion, the planet story with the least tie and impact on the larger conflict/story.

Spoiler


Also the side quests on the planet in most cases do not tie directly into the overarching story but they at least make a passing attempt at being relevant to the furtherance of your side's goals on that planet.

Spoiler


I won't comment on the Revan thing since I didn't play KoToR or KoToR 2.

You also mention that Flashpoints seem to be the only furtherance of the overarching story.

Spoiler


While I will agree that the agent storyline is exceptional (my main is a Sniper) and the others I have experienced to 50 (JK, SW and BH) are weaker by comparison, I don't necessarily have a problem with the ultimate bada** nature of the stories. You should feel heroic as your character.
I think I didn't explain it too well in my original post then, haha. :P

I mentioned Tatooine in specific because it was the most memorable and well written of the bunch. While there are plenty of others that tie in better, then just aren't as well written. A lot of them are awful even.

I also think that the planet stories themselves should have been written to be more alligned with the overall story of the world. I don't see why all the cool stuff with Malgus couldn't have been part of the main story of the world that continues from planet to planet.

As for the grind quests, while yes they do try to make it closer to the plot, the problem is that every game does this. Swtor only does this with added VO. I think the quests should have been more unique. Claiming to be story driven then giving us WoW quests with "republic soldier" instead of "alliance members" is pretty bad.

I don't think that *all* quests should be part of the main quest, but most of them. There should definitely be side quests, but again, make them interesting. Don't give out WoW with voice over quests. The problem is that these types of quests are the vast majority, which is a shame.

I agree with your Taris quest example, but again the problem is that these are too few and far inbetween. These should be the most types seen, not the exception.

As for the flashpoints/operations. Yes there are story elements in them, but they aren't story driven. I picked the BT/E because they really felt like the direction BW should go with them. They were engaging, fun, and had decisions that mattered. They were told well. All the other flashpoints and operations aren't told well. Yes there is progression, but it all takes a backseat. There isn't anything intersesting about them in terms of story. The only thing you get is Malgus telling you you should do this because he's the boss. The problem isn't that the story suddenly became non-existent, it's that it took a backseat in an mmo that's main selling point is its focus on story.

As for your last point, I don't think becoming a bad*** is a bad thing, not at all. The problem is that the class stories are basically a single player campaign, and are the focus of the game, instead of all the cool stuff that's happening. It feels very shallow and unrelated to anything that's going on. You becoming a bad*** has no implication on anything, which is why I think the class story should take a backseat to the larger plot at hand, and be a sort of coming of age quest.

Socialist's Avatar


Socialist
05.31.2012 , 11:26 AM | #30
What destroys this game is that it is a MMO.

Honestly, it would have been a legendary game if it was single player with instanced online multiplayer (Warzones, OPs and Flashpoints).

and I am talking OoT legendary, real *********** legen -wait for it- dary
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