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Jedi Master/Fleet Admiral


VanorDM's Avatar


VanorDM
05.30.2012 , 04:30 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Halford View Post
Hmmm...I thought "I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you"
Yes the two Jedi were not going to fight a whole army for her at that time... Nothing to do with the code, and everything to do with superior numbers.

Again, the Jedi are always fighting in wars. The Great Galactic war, all the Sith wars, ect...

Quote:
However, there is still the need for Fleet Admirals to have actually gone through military training.
And it's completely logical to assume that the training that Jedi go though might very well count as military training. In the game I've run into plenty of solders who have no issue with taking orders from my Jedi. I even took a test on Typhon to see if I was qualified to lead troops or not.

It's also possible that he went though some sort of war collage at some point in his life. If he's 200-300 years old, then taking off 4 or so years to study fleet maneuvers and command isn't exactly a huge chunk of his life.

Darth_Halford's Avatar


Darth_Halford
05.30.2012 , 04:42 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by VanorDM View Post
And it's completely logical to assume that the training that Jedi go though might very well count as military training. In the game I've run into plenty of solders who have no issue with taking orders from my Jedi. I even took a test on Typhon to see if I was qualified to lead troops or not.
I don't see the correlation personally. To get a Surface Warfare pin (which any officer aspiring to be command-at-sea needs), you need to understand engineering, damage control, electronic systems, and all of the other aspects of a ship. Than there's understanding tactics, platform abilities and specifications, ability to keep unit morale up, and so on.
Battle Meditation can only get you so far.

Quote:
It's also possible that he went though some sort of war collage at some point in his life. If he's 200-300 years old, then taking off 4 or so years to study fleet maneuvers and command isn't exactly a huge chunk of his life
Would the Jedi Order really accept that though?
Quote: Originally Posted by wjramussen
IF I want my own story, I break out a word processor.

Maniacraid's Avatar


Maniacraid
05.30.2012 , 05:52 PM | #23
Like others have said, when the Jedi's join the fight in a war, they're given positions of command. Knights and Masters generally becomes Generals. Not every jedi is given the titles and responsibilities of a general or commander, and some even turn the title down. In case you haven't played Knight of the Old Republic 2, the main character is called 'General' by Bao-dur.

Now, granted there is a difference between being a general, and being a fleet admiral, but I don't see that it should be unreasonable for a jedi to being given such a high command when for 400 years (Between 1,400 bby - 1000 bby) all the Supreme Chancellors of the Republic were Jedis.

TheBetty's Avatar


TheBetty
05.30.2012 , 09:43 PM | #24
I think it's more a case of entitlement. A Jedi Master or a Sith Lord are naturally experts at warfare due to their experience, and the massive amount of physical & mental training they have recieved.

I guess it can be said that a Sith or Jedi are not the best choice for a military position of that stature, but are well suited to it. Also the fact that in both the Republic and Empire, they are held in such high regard they (or their factions) believe, they are entitled to it
If force choking Jawas is wrong, I don't want to be right.

KingpinDragon's Avatar


KingpinDragon
05.30.2012 , 10:21 PM | #25
I get the whole "Navy" thing but the war and most battles are in Space, right? In a galaxy far far away... with two governing entities. It's fair to say the Republic Council/Emperor can make what ever military rules they desire. If a Jedi can successfully command an entire Fleet why not?

erei's Avatar


erei
05.30.2012 , 10:33 PM | #26
Jedi are trained to lead troops. At least most of them. And few of them have special abilities to make them powerful leader (battle meditation or dread masters for example). More than any non force sensitive leader. Also, they are trained since they are child, and knows about the war and strategy of the past.

When the Republic is at war with a powerful enemy, and may be destroyed, Jedi lead armies. They protect the Republic, and thus, keep the peace in the galaxy (Si vis pacem, para bellum). They didn't during the mandalorian war, because the Council feared there was something more behind the conflict (IE: the Siths). Some Jedi disobeyed (Reva, Malak, the Exile...), and the Republic gladly used them to lead their armies. As mentioned above, during the clone war, almost every Jedi lead clone troops. Anakin and Kenobi are general, even Ahsoka Tano lead (I think she is even called general from time to time). And she is just a padawan.

The Jedi general is mentioned several time ingame : during a quest in from of the Jedi temple on Tython, or on Balmorra (imp side). On Balmorra, a NPC mention the most efficient tactic the republic use is a Jedi general leading a squad of trooper.

Jedi are peacekeeper, not pacifist. Protecting the Republic is the best way to have peace for the galaxy, so they protect the Republic. Even if it mean fighting against the Republic enemies.

Girdeux's Avatar


Girdeux
05.31.2012 , 01:08 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Halford View Post
Hmmm...I thought "I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you" and "we can't use our powers to help her (The Queen)" was based around the Jedi Code.
This. Lucas stated that the jedi of the PT were corrupt because they were fighting in wars. Their original purpose were to be ambassadors/peace keepers. Not generals fighting in wars.

Pretty much all the jedi follow a corrupt code.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
05.31.2012 , 05:34 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Halford View Post
I don't see the correlation personally. To get a Surface Warfare pin (which any officer aspiring to be command-at-sea needs), you need to understand engineering, damage control, electronic systems, and all of the other aspects of a ship. Than there's understanding tactics, platform abilities and specifications, ability to keep unit morale up, and so on.
Battle Meditation can only get you so far.
This is a time were you see many Jedi military commanders, so I wouldn't be surprised if it is a normal specialzation/profession for Jedi.
There are Jedi diplomats, Jedi archeologists, Jedi cultural explorers, Jedi scientists etc. It seems perfectly possible that other Jedi learn a more military profession and become officers, either in the army or the navy.

The other possibility is that he learned all these things during the war. The last war went on for 40 years, I think. If he was sent to assist a fleet with battle meditation at the beginning, he could have been together with the fleet command for 10, 20 years or so. During this time he learned enough to get his own command after that.

Quote:
Would the Jedi Order really accept that though?
Why shouldn't they? The Jedi are expected to send commanders in war times. So either they have their own military training or they send some Jedi to the military academy.


Btw I think it was different during the Clone Wars. Republic and Jedi weren't prepared for war so many Jedi were made generals without the necessary training. The clone troopers didn't have that much military experience either. They were ten years at that time (biologically 20 years), so together with basic education they received 5 years military training at best. It seems they normally had a double-command structure:
1 Jedi General and 1 Clone Commander

In the TOR period it was different, though. As I explained, military leader was probably a normal specialization for Jedi.

Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
This. Lucas stated that the jedi of the PT were corrupt because they were fighting in wars. Their original purpose were to be ambassadors/peace keepers. Not generals fighting in wars.

Pretty much all the jedi follow a corrupt code.
If Lucas stated this, I will just ignore him. And most books, games etc. ignore him too. I mean, they are called Jedi Knights normally.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

VanorDM's Avatar


VanorDM
05.31.2012 , 09:26 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Girdeux View Post
This. Lucas stated that the jedi of the PT were corrupt because they were fighting in wars.
You'll have to provide some sort of quote before that statement will be taken seriously.

Anakin and Obi-wan were both generals in the Clone wars according to Lucas in ANH. All of the Jedi in the clone wars seem to have some sort of military rank. These are all things that Lucas himself have said, so the idea that somehow that he feels that Jedi are corrupt because they are fighting in wars is a major contradiction to the other stuff he said and did.

During peace time, the Jedi are peace keepers and diplomats, who seem to try to prevent war. But when war breaks out, they end up either in command of troops or at least fight along side of them in every war that we know of.

VanorDM's Avatar


VanorDM
05.31.2012 , 09:30 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Halford View Post
Battle Meditation can only get you so far.
Umm no, that's clearly not true according to all canon. Battle Meditation will make any and all troops much more effective and efficient. Either because the Force can take what they already know and use some sort of pseudo hive-mind to aid them, or because the Force gives the Jedi knowledge that they might not otherwise have.

But it's a simple fact of canon that Battle Meditation turns a group of troops or ships into a much, much more effective unit then anything else can or does.