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Guild's Raid Comp Issues

MimicUnleashed's Avatar


MimicUnleashed
05.23.2012 , 11:25 PM | #1
This game has done a pretty good job of giving audio for when bosses do certain abilities so you can hear "Hey! Defensive Protocols!" and react. With game sound being iffy this has caused us some problems, but we can fix it. What my guild runs into is a severe issue at times. Certain key abilities only display as audio. The previously mentioned defensive measures for the tanks in Denova are pretty good (when audio works) but we have a pretty unique situation. One of our MTs is deaf.

Now I know that things like Toth and Zorn's key abilities get a warning text. Which is fine (barring class comp issues I'll get to in a minute) but with audio-only ques one of our MTs relies almost completely on someone typing them to align themselves. The channeling bars being a good visual for him before the dome phase, but if a boss only does audio and nothing visual, he has to keep one eye on the chat log at all times. Now it just means he's a little slower, but as we delve deeper into Denova this is an issue because reaction time needs to be pretty spot-on.

Our worst offender for him has almost always been the first boss in EV. Who does an audio only warning for the AOE and has no channel bar. Now this is pretty petty in terms of issues, but an option to get those warnings on screen even as a toggle would be wonderful. It's quality of life for a guy who can't hear, but is otherwise more than capable in his role.

The other issue we run into is melee taking it in the face. Which isn't so bad, except that there is no AOE damage reduction for the Vigilance tree. So on Toth and Zorn it's pretty much half a fight where no DPS is happening while someone is way out of range waiting to get topped off. This is also a recurring issue every time we do a new difficulty of Gharj, Bonecrusher and pretty consistent on Toth. Maybe that's more a class issue, but wouldn't it make some sense to take that into consideration when you think "OH! Melee take AOE damage. How much damage will X spec take?" I know Vanguards have the same issue, so it seems sort of odd that 8% more armor than medium armored DPS means they take 22% more damage when that's all the damage they're suppose to take.

The other issue we have OPs wise is that without a sage, some fights are a simple nightmare. I know all healing specs are suppose to have their niche, but is it not feaseable to up the AOE ability of Troopers? Because we literally pick strats depending on if we have a Trooper/Sage combo or 2 Sages that night.

Any outside suggestions would be welcome, but from what I can find these are unique comp issues we seems to bump the walls with pretty regularly and I'd love some suggestions on how to help. Especially with our MT who really has no fault in this, and it's one of those outlying things that you just cannot plan for.

Thanks in advance!

~Mimic
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimsPicken View Post
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teemoor's Avatar


teemoor
05.24.2012 , 01:41 AM | #2
Dunno about healing problems. We usually have a sorc+oper healer, but yesterday we ran denova with an oper+merc healers.

anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
05.24.2012 , 09:07 AM | #3
On the warning's issue, I'm not sure exactly what needs to change. As I understand it, you have a tank in your raid with hearing difficulties and thus any audio clues to a fight are missed by him/her.

However, in my experience, any spoken words are also posted to the chat log and there is usually some sort of visual indication too. So, Toth and Zorn have the visual indication of actually leaping, then other skills you get a big warning in the middle of the screen. On the tanks, there are visual indications on the turrets plus writting in your chat box. It definitely seems as if the game is giving you enough indications that a special attack is going to occur.


As to the class composition, yeh, it can be frustrating when you dont have the right class composition. It does certainly feel like melee get punished, simply because they take more AoE damage than ranged classes. However, this definitely balances out over time. Whilst fights like Toth, Soa, Kephess etc may well be easier stacking ranged classes, there are other fights where stacking melee is best. Bonethrasher, for example, is best if you are melee as you have no downtime at all on the boss, whereas ranged end up losing DPS due to moving and interupting their cast bars. Same sort of thing happens on EV droid when avoiding missles, Karagga with the voids etc.

Whilst I'd like to see melee punished less with AoE damage, I actually think it is partially a good thing. If melee didn't get AoE then every fight would just involve spam healing the tank. I'd rather damage hit the ranged as well as melee but its a small thing. Every class has their place.
Anstalt - lvl 50 valor 81 Shadow Consular

Currently retired due to poor design decisions within the game that have killed its longevity. Get rid of Hickman before he ruins the game completely!

MimicUnleashed's Avatar


MimicUnleashed
05.24.2012 , 09:42 AM | #4
Oh I agree that the special ability warnings are 75% of the time still easily spottable, but once you look out for it there are certain key things you do notice that have only audio ques and from a tank's perspective (in the bad guy's crotch) you can't see them move to a different stance sometimes. Just allowing the toggle of warning text for those who choose is a quality of life issue for him. He doesn't complain, but we can see that when the bosses don't cast or have fly text on everyone's screen his reaction time is 1-2 seconds slower.

For the melee... well the AOE needs to be there. I agree. I wish it was more evenly dispersed to not punish one style, but I sort of live with it. The issue I do have is giving that sort of mechanic a work out on a lot of bosses, and then not giving AOE damage reductions to melee DPS classes while others have them. Those 2 skill points make such a huge difference sometimes it's just hard to not complain when the Sentinel is laughing his way through a fight and the Guardian is standing a country mile away waiting for the healer to get to him.
Quote: Originally Posted by SlimsPicken View Post
Show me on the doll where Bioware touched you
Never Forget
Never Surrender

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
05.24.2012 , 11:55 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by MimicUnleashed View Post
This game has done a pretty good job of giving audio for when bosses do certain abilities so you can hear "Hey! Defensive Protocols!" and react. With game sound being iffy this has caused us some problems, but we can fix it. What my guild runs into is a severe issue at times. Certain key abilities only display as audio. The previously mentioned defensive measures for the tanks in Denova are pretty good (when audio works) but we have a pretty unique situation. One of our MTs is deaf.

Now I know that things like Toth and Zorn's key abilities get a warning text. Which is fine (barring class comp issues I'll get to in a minute) but with audio-only ques one of our MTs relies almost completely on someone typing them to align themselves. The channeling bars being a good visual for him before the dome phase, but if a boss only does audio and nothing visual, he has to keep one eye on the chat log at all times. Now it just means he's a little slower, but as we delve deeper into Denova this is an issue because reaction time needs to be pretty spot-on.

Our worst offender for him has almost always been the first boss in EV. Who does an audio only warning for the AOE and has no channel bar. Now this is pretty petty in terms of issues, but an option to get those warnings on screen even as a toggle would be wonderful. It's quality of life for a guy who can't hear, but is otherwise more than capable in his role.
There are visual cues for everything -- including the Annhilation Droid in EV. There are cast bars and reticles on the ground (for storm, in case you missed it).

Not having audio can be a problem, but a greater awareness to visual cues shouldn't make this an issue.

Quote:
The other issue we run into is melee taking it in the face. Which isn't so bad, except that there is no AOE damage reduction for the Vigilance tree. So on Toth and Zorn it's pretty much half a fight where no DPS is happening while someone is way out of range waiting to get topped off. This is also a recurring issue every time we do a new difficulty of Gharj, Bonecrusher and pretty consistent on Toth. Maybe that's more a class issue, but wouldn't it make some sense to take that into consideration when you think "OH! Melee take AOE damage. How much damage will X spec take?" I know Vanguards have the same issue, so it seems sort of odd that 8% more armor than medium armored DPS means they take 22% more damage when that's all the damage they're suppose to take.
There are a couple ways to work with this issue.

Most of the AOE damage that melee DPS face in Toth and Zorn is during Toth's berserk phase. Melee do not have to be on Toth during this. For example, with how we do it in HM ... tanks stay on the same side, but switch the bosses. Melee DPS starts on Toth, so that when the berserk phase starts, Toth is on the other side and melee is on Zorn. Melee DPS do take some damage, but it's really healable.

Alternatively, we've done the fight where the melee is behind toth when he does the berserk. We do not have the melee DPS "run out to be topped off." Healers keep them up. FWIW, the melee in our runs is a sentinel.

Quote:
The other issue we have OPs wise is that without a sage, some fights are a simple nightmare. I know all healing specs are suppose to have their niche, but is it not feaseable to up the AOE ability of Troopers? Because we literally pick strats depending on if we have a Trooper/Sage combo or 2 Sages that night.
Healers, like tanks, all do their role but in different ways. Trooper/BH is not a raid healer and never will be. They are incredible tank healers. Much the same as how Sages are great raid healers and simply good tank healers. Can a Sage perform admirably in a tank healer role? Sure. Just like how the Trooper can raid heal. But it's much more difficult because the class is designed that way.

It's very important to diversify your healing. Sages are not mandatory; Scoundrels work just as well. But if you're trying to force a Trooper into a raid healer, it just won't work. They were never designed to do that.
Former GM and RL of a once great guild. Now just wandering the galaxy looking for a good home.