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Next two playable races

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Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
01.20.2013 , 07:33 AM | #201
Quote: Originally Posted by Sage View Post
You know what? I take this one back. Duros have large heads - just scale the helmets. Perhaps a tricky one to implement but surely not impossible?



1) Okay, I understand the points about the fade-to-black romance. But people are only talking about the actual "sex scene" part. Some players might actually enjoy the romance storyline. And considering the amount of call from the players over same-sex romance, I don't think BioWare wants to just cut it in order to get certain species into the game. Having said that, it's certainly not impossible and a good workaround for when they decide to do it. I just don't see it being a priority.

2) Again, a decent workaround. I also have my helmet off on most of my characters. Still not a priority over compatible species IMO. This is probably the most realistic compromise that BW will make in the forseeable future. Brings in Duros, Iktochi, Devaronian (probably only males though?), Mon Cal, Neimoidian, Nautolan, Cerean... for a start.

3.) Kel Dor could probably just use the echo sound like wearing a helmet. Trandoshans don't sound like humans at all from what I've seen. And can Rodians even speak basic? This may be suitable for those who simply PvP and play endgame, but as a roleplayer I'm not willing to sacrifice... "realism".
OK

1) I agree you offer some people like the idea of Romance and Marriage of my 5 lv 50's 3 took romance it seemed like an extra option to the game, and built a huge affection bonus points which did legacy unlocks. All good. However if when I was creating a character I had a Choice Human or Kel'dor and when I clicked on Kel'dor it said some romance options will be blocked please tick to confirm I would take Kel'dor with no romance over human with Romance. Also for every race maybe add 1 extra NPC in which was that speices they could romance. As for the SGR options and arguments I have never understood the out cry for or against this option, then again I am sure they dont know why I am arguing for more species.

3) I think perhpase a dozen alien species have been suggested. The problem with Star Wars Cannon is that some species that can speak basic dont seem to like to and others that can't have occasionaly spoken basic in a book or Cartoon. For example Transdoshan in TOR they dont speak basic but from what I have seen Bossk could as can the Transodhan in the clone Wars TV series. Maybe a sanity check has to be picked on each species with the question "Could we get away with this" Kel Dor yes, Mon Cal yes, Trandoshan Maybe, Rodian Probably not, Jawa no.

StormEarth's Avatar


StormEarth
01.20.2013 , 07:57 AM | #202
I will like to see a Nautolano like master Kit Fisto.
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Dzan's Avatar


Dzan
01.20.2013 , 11:34 AM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSeventhJedi View Post
Aside from the fact that I'm dying for a Togruta - and it pains me to hear that, let's talk about what you've got here.

#1 We don't have the customization options we've come to expect. There are a few pre-made faces (one, if you play a Sith - they all look EXACTLY the same within each body type) to choose from, and I can choose a few dangly things or paint to throw on it. That's it for all races. I can't tell you how many times I've run into my clone in-game. Heck, I thought I was being unique with some of my choices for a cyborg character, and grouped with a player who had EXACTLY the same thing. I think many of us would be fine with extra aliens using only the appearances of those aliens that are already in-game. That's practically all we have to begin with.

#2 It kind of does feel like you're throwing cold water on the discussion. When you tell us you should know about Cathar "soon-ish", well - when? For cryin' out loud? You announced the possibility - it's gotta be six months or more in the past, I don't even remember anymore, and we still don't even have an availability guess for them. You guys have abused the word "soon" so much that it's absolutely meaningless. Let's say - optimistically, that we can play Cathar within three months. That's nine months from announcement to implementation. Let's say - with ridiculous optimism, that everyone buys the race, everyone loves it, the game turns into Cat Wars, and you decide to jump on that cash cow ASAP, announcing a new playable species three months after Cathar are made available. If it takes you even half that time to implement the new one (Togruta are at the top of that list - we hope you go with it, but if it's as hard as you say, I'm being optimistic AGAIN,) it'll still be almost a year before I get something other than Cathar. Will I still be rolling alts by then? I seriously hope you have a legitimate xpac up your sleeves, because if you don't, I fear that no one will have a reason to buy into a second additional species.

That puts a new species, at best, in December of this year. If I'm still around, I'll have been playing for two years. That's quite a long time to wait.

I get it. Your job is hard. Coding is hard. None of us know how to do it. Know what else is hard? I teach inner-city kids who started speaking English a few years ago and read more poorly than my first grader to pass the proficiency exam in reading and writing. That's hard too. Are there plenty of excuses about why it's hard to do, why I might not even be able to at all? You bet. Do any of those excuses matter? Nope. I do it, successfully, twice a year. That's what I'm paid to do, so, impossible task that it is - and since I want to keep getting paid, I just do it. I work long hours. I go to school and learn new techniques. I'm constantly in touch with my "customers" and getting feedback. At the end of the day, I must give my "customers" what they need, or they quit. I don't think it's too much to ask the same of a company I pay on a monthly basis.

No more soon. No more excuses. We'll pay you! We promise! Just do it!
This is really strong, mate. Agree with you tottaly. I take my hat before you and i mean it

HotStuff_SW's Avatar


HotStuff_SW
01.20.2013 , 12:35 PM | #204
Just to toss in something else. We have a Mon Calamari companion for Smugglers. Mine wears all of my hand-me-down armor and it works just fine. They simply do not show the helmet or gloves. Everything else works.

I would think that the lack of being able to squeeze their head into a standard helmet shouldn't bar a species from consideration. Ditto the hands and even the feet. I'm sure most people who want species that differ in head/hands/feet would be content to go without helmets/gloves/boots to have them.

I could be wrong, of course. :-)

CelCawdro's Avatar


CelCawdro
01.20.2013 , 12:46 PM | #205
For everyone still harping on the "kiss" quote, this is the oft-overlooked elaboration on that statement:

Quote:
Hey Folks,

Sorry for the confusion. Booth chat is, let's be clear, not an official information release. What you got was one line of an extended conversation that was had between me and one of the players at the booth. We started talking about what made a hero in Star Wars and then, once that was clear, there were some jokes about what the romances would look like had we gone for the toybox approach of letting you play anything in the action figure line. That's the part of the conversation the quote came from.

The first part was merely a repetition of something we've said before. Namely that lead characters in an RPG must be something the player can relate to. There has never been a movie or major Star Wars series with a complete freak job as the lead and that's because dramatically it doesn't work. We don't understand what it means to be a giant lizard or a droid or a walking ball of jelly. We love the weird characters but they are always the sidekicks, not the emotional connection in the movie. To do an RPG that way every NPC you ran into would have to react to you depending on their own cultural bias and the entire "into the strange" adventure that is Star Wars would be lost as you would be the strangest thing in the room. People would constantly be asking you for information about your weird species and their emotional content that the vast majority of players simply wouldn't have and their ability to really BE this character would be nil.

So whether it's Dragon Age, Mass Effect or The Old Republic, PCs are near enough to humans for us to crawl into their skin. They have generally understandable facial expressions, they don't look ludicrous speaking the basic language, they can interact with the rest of the galaxy without a constant "what the heck?" reaction from the NPCs. The freaks, the droids, the weird that we get to know and learn about--that's where our companions come in.

It's okay to turn to your companions and say "What are you supposed to be?" It's not okay to look in the mirror and say that.

In the future I can see a day where we would do a Trandoshan or Wookiee type story but it would have to be just that. Not a simple graphic swap where now your smuggler is a giant lizard man and nobody notices but a full class story where you learn what it means to be this strange alien and deal with the rest of the galaxy and their reactions. For the present, however, our heroes are our projections of self, headed into a galaxy of wonders and adventures.

I know that this isn't what some people want but I hope it helps them understand that game design isn't simply throwing random features into a game because they seem cool. You have to have a goal, a final holistic ideal that you're trying to hit. The Old Republic is, and always has been, about starring in your own version of a Star Wars movie. Not playing a background character from scene 5, not about living a humdrum day to day existence in the Star Wars worlds (there are no refreshers--sorry!) and not about pulling out the extended action figure line and getting to use it as virtual costume party. None of these are, by themselves, bad goals and could absolutely be fun in a very different sort of game. But in TOR they would work directly against what we were trying to achieve.

So did we limit species choice for romances? No. Did we limit them for our goal of bringing cinematic storytelling and the dream of living the Star Wars movies to the MMO space? Absolutely.

Hope that helps!

Daniel
In short, romance isn't the issue - it's relatability. And that's something that BioWare is admittedly willing to soften their stance on, given player demand

Altyrell's Avatar


Altyrell
01.20.2013 , 12:53 PM | #206
Quote: Originally Posted by CelCawdro View Post
For everyone still harping on the "kiss" quote, this is the oft-overlooked elaboration on that statement:



In short, romance isn't the issue - it's relatability. And that's something that BioWare is admittedly willing to soften their stance on, given player demand
Yep, which is why Kel Dorians, and others would be plausible. And with the Kel Dor, most of their customizational differences between other Kel Dors would be similar to that of the Miraluka. In that, I mean how the Miraluka's eye masks are their main difference for the Kel Dor's it would be their Breathing Masks.

The only hiccup I possibly foresee would be how their Breath Masks reacts to the 1st Helm of the Sith Warrior & possibly Sith Inquisitor and other Breath Masks.

CelCawdro's Avatar


CelCawdro
01.20.2013 , 01:08 PM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by Altyrell View Post
Yep, which is why Kel Dorians, and others would be plausible. And with the Kel Dor, most of their customizational differences between other Kel Dors would be similar to that of the Miraluka. In that, I mean how the Miraluka's eye masks are their main difference for the Kel Dor's it would be their Breathing Masks.

The only hiccup I possibly foresee would be how their Breath Masks reacts to the 1st Helm of the Sith Warrior & possibly Sith Inquisitor and other Breath Masks.
The solution to that is simple - we've seen it on our more-exotic companions as well as cyborgs and Purebloods recently - simply don't display the armour. (And yes, my Pureblood was disallowed from wearing his mask for a few months as it clipped with the tendrils [which I actually liked].)

Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
01.20.2013 , 04:17 PM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by Altyrell View Post
Yep, which is why Kel Dorians, and others would be plausible. And with the Kel Dor, most of their customizational differences between other Kel Dors would be similar to that of the Miraluka. In that, I mean how the Miraluka's eye masks are their main difference for the Kel Dor's it would be their Breathing Masks.

The only hiccup I possibly foresee would be how their Breath Masks reacts to the 1st Helm of the Sith Warrior & possibly Sith Inquisitor and other Breath Masks.
I think most people who would play an alien would be more than happy to have some helmets (or all helmets) dsiabled. The Kel'dor breatjing mask is no worse than the Miraluka visor. Plus lets not forget the breather can be removed at any point, as such if a helmet covers the lower part of the face why not just assume that it has its own air supply (cant remember what Kel'dor breath) and so he no longer needed the breather.

As for Dailog SIth Pure blood jedi, trooper and smugglers get no new dialog and we are just ment to accept it so I am sure we can accept some odd dialog for a Kel'dor, just like playing a Twi'lek Sith Warrior doesn't tie in with the sith warrior story but people dont care. If they want to play a Twi'lek Sith Warrior they are happy to put up with some strange dialog just like all the poeople who want to play a Kel'dor trooper will be.

publicenemies's Avatar


publicenemies
01.20.2013 , 07:07 PM | #209
The truth of the matter is they already alienated the "alien race player" community off the bat b/c its all everyone complained out in beta at comic con and there stance is we cant do it b/c of voice overs and facial expressions and other balony. That was a huge chunk of ex swg players who sole toons back in the day were wookies,rodians and others so before launch they already lost this niche market.

Its all a load of crap from ea they want to invest as little as possible into this game and increase thier revenue on rehashing stuff already in the game and keep production costs low.

Ill say it again damion there is nothing and i repeat NOTHING unique about the races we have now there all based off the human skin model and just changed skin colors and called different races.

So please keep telling your customers how much it costs to not do what we all want.

I 100% gaurantee cathar will be humans painted on fur like you would see people dressed up as cats on a broadway play and they will say its unique to lol.

CelCawdro's Avatar


CelCawdro
01.21.2013 , 08:58 AM | #210
I think I should add here that I know quite a few people who have literally stopped playing (if they started in the first place) because that cannot create a character that they can actually relate to. And yes, that is because there is a lack of the the more exotic alien species (ie. non-Near-humans). Quite frankly, I probably wouldn't be playing (or even picked the game up in the first place) if I hadn't had an interest in the Sith species before SW:TOR came around. BioWare absolutely loves to talk about the relatability of our characters, but have essentially robbed us of the ability to relate because our favourite species weren't included.

Human beings are wonderfully empathetic creatures, able to relate to virtually anything: other people, animals, plants, inanimate objects (both natural and artificial) and even abstract concepts that have no physical presence. It is almost offensive to trivialize this human capacity by stating that a human face is needed to be able to relate to something.