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Next two playable races

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Edzew's Avatar


Edzew
01.17.2013 , 07:21 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.
First off Twi'leks usually only have their lekku in back in the movies, but if you did any research you would know they are used to show their emotion and are oftin moving and not always behind them.

Second, what customization?? this game hardly has any customization!!! the most customization we have is our hair and eye color!! other than that its quite lame that's why if you took everyone armor off everyone would just about look exactly the same other than skin color and maybe some horns/tails on their head!! there isnt enough customization in this game at all, its one thing we have all *****ed about since beta but was never addressed!

just admit you all are to lazy to do any real work and give us anything that looks good or anything we actually want! .

Quote: Originally Posted by LukeSaberRattler View Post
So I guess you skipped the part where he said that if Cathar do well and are well received they will expand further? He hasn't closed the door on any race at the moment.
except for non basic speaking races!!!! that door is closed, locked, and welded shut!!!!

Kaze-Yama's Avatar


Kaze-Yama
01.17.2013 , 07:29 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post


The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.
This is just a cop out IMO. Saying you won't put togruta in the game because you care too much about clipping. Twilek clipping issues are all over the place. There are major clipping issues for humanoid characters completely absent of our species. If you have a cape and ride a speeder your cape clips straight through the bottom of the speeder that issue has been around forever.

I know Bioware likes to say they won't release anything unless it is perfect, but I'm sure many people won't care about limited customization or potential clipping issues if the content actually makes it in the game. I would be much happier if they release new species with limited customization options and then add more options in and refine clipping issues or whatever gradually over time. Being able to play as any togruta; limited, buggy, or otherwise is a much better option than never being able to.

Of course we also lack the ability to edit our existing characters in terms of hair or makeup so expecting species is pretty much a pipedream at this point. I personally don't feel much incentive to pay for Cathar when every response to adding more species is that it is super difficult and there is no guarantee that devs will even listen to fans for what species they want. Basically you are holding customers hostage by forcing us to buy the cathar race even if we don't want to roll one just for the small chance you may add more species at a later date. I mean you announced Cathar like a year ago and they still havn't been released it is majorly disappointing that Bioware has consistently failed to give any reasonable responses about species that fans actually want.

Pearlie's Avatar


Pearlie
01.17.2013 , 08:21 PM | #113
Must have Nautolans. Posthaste.

Jonoku's Avatar


Jonoku
01.17.2013 , 08:27 PM | #114
I want nightsister the most right now.

Altyrell's Avatar


Altyrell
01.17.2013 , 08:43 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by Jonoku View Post
I want nightsister the most right now.
They don't exist in this era

Pauleh's Avatar


Pauleh
01.17.2013 , 09:31 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by Edzew View Post
First off Twi'leks usually only have their lekku in back in the movies, but if you did any research you would know they are used to show their emotion and are oftin moving and not always behind them.

Second, what customization?? this game hardly has any customization!!! the most customization we have is our hair and eye color!! other than that its quite lame that's why if you took everyone armor off everyone would just about look exactly the same other than skin color and maybe some horns/tails on their head!! there isnt enough customization in this game at all, its one thing we have all *****ed about since beta but was never addressed!

just admit you all are to lazy to do any real work and give us anything that looks good or anything we actually want! .



except for non basic speaking races!!!! that door is closed, locked, and welded shut!!!!
Pretty sure he said 'typically' *looks* yep he did.

Lium's Avatar


Lium
01.17.2013 , 09:31 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.
Thanks for the response.

Edit: But I just also wanted to say that though I never played it, I understand Star Wars Galaxies had a variety of playable species. Obviously different engine and all of that, but the developers of that game knew the importance of species variety in a Star Wars MMO.

Clipping issues are valid, but as others have pointed out, there are all kinds of clipping issues with twi'leks and pretty much everyone else in the game. It's something that can probably be fixed over time through patches. I agree that quality is better than quantity, except in cases like this, where the quantity is so low that it's hard to see the quality.

darthgamer's Avatar


darthgamer
01.17.2013 , 09:46 PM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
We probably would never make a non-English speaking player race. I know it seems attractive, but simply put, hearing alien for way too long drives you crazy. An early build of the game had Tython populated by a race other than Twi'leks, and after about the fourth quest, you want to put a fist through your monitor.

So any races we add in the future will need to plausibly be able to speak basic.
Kel-Dor and ill get you guys office snacks!!
I'll be the butter you'll be the popcorn

ganondorq's Avatar


ganondorq
01.17.2013 , 09:54 PM | #119
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.
i'm glad to see an official commenting! but, if cathar do well, do you guys plan on doing anything with the sub species of cathar?

Lythos's Avatar


Lythos
01.17.2013 , 10:09 PM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by Altyrell View Post
Why would it obviously be a Republic Species and not a Species available to, oh I don't know, BOTH Sides?
Of course you will be able to unlock it via Legacy/Cartel Market. However the Cathar are Republic Allies. It wouldn't make sense to add them to the Empire side from the start. The only friendly Cathar I encountered as Empire were the ones you freed from Belsavis. Even then it was one scene. Other than that they always show up as enemies of the Empire. I see them adding 2 races in the Expansion 1 Republic(Cathar) and 1 Empire(Undetermined)