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Is Darth Traya/Kreia the best teacher of Force Users?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Is Darth Traya/Kreia the best teacher of Force Users?

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
05.19.2012 , 07:11 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
I had forgotten that Kreia found Nihilus after he survived the MSG on Malachor V, I'm pretty sure it isn't known if he was a civilian, soldier or possibly even a Sith. So you can't say for sure she taught him every thing he knew or that he wasn't possibly a trained Sith at the time. I will concede she taught him how to control his hunger,which was a new thing to him.
The Campaign Guide tells us that Traya found him and taught him everything.

Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
Revan had way too many Masters to call Kreia his "main Master". She was his first, and he left to train under Master Zhar, he left Zhar, and went on to train under many masters, including Zhar again. He finally went back to Kreia when "he realized there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi—except how one could leave them forever."

So that's Kreia twice, Zhar, twice, numerous other Masters, at least once. I don't know how you arrived at Kreia being his main master from that unless you are inferring this from her being his first Master and thus the "main" or most important, which is subjective.
You misunderstand, the rest of the masters never truly taught Revan anything he just perfected his powers, Kreia modelled him after herself al of his core beliefs and teachings came from Kreia.

Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
It's been quite a number of years since I have played KOTOR II, and admittedly I chose to play Meetra more DS than LS on my playthroughs. I could be misremembering but while Kreia did set the wheels in motion for the plot, it was mostly about the Exile rediscovering her connection to the Force, the resulting abilities from each rediscovery and a focus on the wound in the force and Kreia's plan involving this.
Don't you remember the multiple times on the Ebon Hawk where Kreia taught you a whole range of powers and other times like when she teaches you Beast Control on Dxun? she also taught Meetra a whole range of philosophical teachings from all sides, she ended up being the first real Jedi since the Sunriders.

Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
While it is typical Sith fashion to turn upon your Master, they turned on her and cast her out because they had tired of her teachings. Yes, Revan had left her long ago and yes, Meetra was forced to fight her. However you word it or describe the circumstances, 3 out of her 4 known students tried to kill her.

When the fecal matter hits the fan in a major way, heads will always roll, and there will always be a scapegoat. Who better to blame for Revan's fall than his first and last Master? kreia got to be the scapegoat this time, but again it is not known if this is because of the importance placed on her training with him or she was handy to lay the blame at her feet. Their time together is virtually unknown, and what little we do know comes from Kreia, who is a master manipulator and liar.
Well she had two Sith Apprentices who betrayed her, as is their way, Sith who were on the verge of destroying all life in the galaxy, the best true jedi seen since the days of Exar Kun and an icon.

What we do know is this, Revan's own views are very similar to the views Kreia held and it is clear from the obvious knowledge the Jedi had that she was indeed major influence in the order and they blamed her and her teachings specifically for everything that happened, hell Atris even knew what Kreia's real name was, it could be Arren Kae for all we know.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
05.19.2012 , 08:05 PM | #12
It's been a long time since I played Kotor 2 but Where was it confirmed that Revan's Machiavellian schemes came from Kreia? Revan already had a "sith like" attitude even during the Mandalorian Wars. I thought I remembered reading on Kotor 2's website back when the game came out that Krea fell to the darkside when she visited Malachor V because she was troubled by Revan's fall or something which would have been after the Jedi Civil War began.

I don't remember anything in the game that says that Sion and Nihilus learned everything they knew exclusively from her either. They both seem to have mastered techniques that she has not.

And regarded the Exile, I don't know how much significance Kotor 2 actually had on whatever character they made up in Meetra. If the canon story was a lightside female then obviously she disregarded a lot of what Kriea said. I fail to see how the Exile became the first "true Jedi" (why was she the only one?) because of anything Kreia taught. Most of what she says is absolutely antithetical to any Jedi teaching.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
05.19.2012 , 08:30 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
It's been a long time since I played Kotor 2 but Where was it confirmed that Revan's Machiavellian schemes came from Kreia? Revan already had a "sith like" attitude even during the Mandalorian Wars. I thought I remembered reading on Kotor 2's website back when the game came out that Krea fell to the darkside when she visited Malachor V because she was troubled by Revan's fall or something which would have been after the Jedi Civil War began.
You are referring to Revan falling to the Dark Side, I am not.

Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
I don't remember anything in the game that says that Sion and Nihilus learned everything they knew exclusively from her either. They both seem to have mastered techniques that she has not.
I didn't suggest Sion, and it isn't in the game it is in the Campaign Guide that states Nihilus was taught completely by Kreia and Kreia seems to have similar powers to Nihilus, when she devoured the Jedi Council members on Dantooine, she had shades of her former apprentice.

Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
And regarded the Exile, I don't know how much significance Kotor 2 actually had on whatever character they made up in Meetra. If the canon story was a lightside female then obviously she disregarded a lot of what Kriea said. I fail to see how the Exile became the first "true Jedi" (why was she the only one?) because of anything Kreia taught. Most of what she says is absolutely antithetical to any Jedi teaching.
You missed the point, she did not embrace the teachings of kreia, she was shown the philosophies of both the Jedi and the Sith by Kreia, and basically chose the Light Side, chose to do what was right in the moment rather than follow blindly what was a pretty sad excuse for a Jedi order by that point.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
05.19.2012 , 09:02 PM | #14
I like that speech of Kreia's:

Revan was..... power. Like gazing into a pale reflection of Kyle Katarn.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Temeluchus's Avatar


Temeluchus
05.19.2012 , 09:02 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
The Campaign Guide tells us that Traya found him and taught him everything.



You misunderstand, the rest of the masters never truly taught Revan anything he just perfected his powers, Kreia modelled him after herself al of his core beliefs and teachings came from Kreia.



Don't you remember the multiple times on the Ebon Hawk where Kreia taught you a whole range of powers and other times like when she teaches you Beast Control on Dxun? she also taught Meetra a whole range of philosophical teachings from all sides, she ended up being the first real Jedi since the Sunriders.



Well she had two Sith Apprentices who betrayed her, as is their way, Sith who were on the verge of destroying all life in the galaxy, the best true jedi seen since the days of Exar Kun and an icon.

What we do know is this, Revan's own views are very similar to the views Kreia held and it is clear from the obvious knowledge the Jedi had that she was indeed major influence in the order and they blamed her and her teachings specifically for everything that happened, hell Atris even knew what Kreia's real name was, it could be Arren Kae for all we know.
Thank you for the clarification. I'm still not convinced on the Kreia being his main Master thing though. I don't really think he learned nothing from the other Masters, if that were the case why would he study under Zhar twice? Seems kind of stupid of Revan to study under a guy again when he didn't teach you anything the first go around.

Slightly off topic, if you have played the SW story, what are your thoughts on the Entity?
Spoiler
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.”