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@David Hunt: rethink 50k augment costs in 1.3

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
@David Hunt: rethink 50k augment costs in 1.3
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Augustine's Avatar


Augustine
05.18.2012 , 02:39 PM | #1
background:
I have played this game since release, while I am not entirely happy with many of the decisions to date, I do not have an axe to grind, and this isn't my first MMO rodeo. I have been playing MMO's since 1994 and have always been a dedicated crafter. I also get that sometimes changes are made that retrospectively impact players who assumed development planning was static and linear. That being said I am one of the BM's that got screwed because I pulled my PVP armor mods out and put them into a gear set I liked (Pilot Suit) at a cost of in excess of 1m+ credits (min/maxing between different sets) only to find that post 1.2 I need to spend in excess of 800k to reinsert my mods for little or no marginal benefit. As a consequence I have logged into my Sage exactly 3 times since 1.2 only to log out depressed thinking about the credit sink. Not a big deal I have an alt I leveled and am happily enjoying in PVP and crafting with, we have 8 slots after all.

Thats we can level another toon, that there is a time and credit sink involved in reaching a certain power level differential, and that sometimes we need to deal with adjustments during the development cycle as players is NOT the barrier to entry or the issue.

The issues from a dedicated crafter players perspective are thus:
1) We were given mis-information that all orange gear would be craft-able- And we stuck by you.
2) We were not able to RE crafted items for 1+ month until you could patch and fix this code - And we stuck by you
3) We've been told repeatedly that crafting end game would be viable - And we have stuck by you
4) Lets be frank: Server populations are down, this impacts the player based economy, you recall the need for demand in a supply and demand economy I'm sure from econ 101. We were promised new schematics we got PVP gear schematics (that took care of #1 above I guess....) - Given low pops, no demand, and no new schematics, we still stuck by you
5) We were told that set bonuses would transfer, and they do "only for post 1.2 gear" which resulted in quite a few people with modded gear being screwed - And we stuck by you

I frankly don't care what your metrics are telling you. I'm sure there are players with 2m+ credits, there always are in every game. My point is that given the above issues another credit sink of 50k when it already costs 105k to re-mod a crit augmented piece of gear (555k total) plus the costs associated with 5-6 augments (I can craft my own fortunately) for another 500k (@ approx 100k per augment) puts the barrier to entry at the BM tier around 1m+ credits plus the time sink.

Correct me if I am wrong but you would like to add another 250k cost on to this via augment slot tables?

So you'd like level 50 players to fork over 1.3m credits for top tier BM gear (plus whatever costs associated with upgrading to WH gear), assuming they can make their own, which most can't.

I'm not a casual, but by now most of my server is, and my guild is long gone (preferring to wait for GW2 rather than log in to SWTOR) so how is this fair to them? How is a high cost barrier to entry fair to crafters in that it does nothing but stifle demand? Why should we stick by you again? (because honestly it's starting to feel like a one way relationship here).

Please go back to the whiteboard run this 50k credit metric against population metrics (I'd throw out the outliers) vs. average credits. It's just to high, 36k is hard enough, 50k....sigh just wrong given the current circumstances.

Please rethink this

Lady_Alyria's Avatar


Lady_Alyria
05.18.2012 , 02:59 PM | #2
I am confused, if you paid all that money to move your stuff over to the outfit you wanted, why do you need to move it again?

Considering the average orange on my server costs around 1k and the average augmented orange costs around 80k, this change is a 30k discount for people, depending on how much augment kits end up going for. Considering they are much easier to make than a critted orange I bet they'll end up going for cheap, so the new system drops the price for augments by almost half. I have no clue what the issue is.

Chalpy's Avatar


Chalpy
05.18.2012 , 04:26 PM | #3
I'll use your server's figures and overall game figures for this. Level six House Mecetti's Losses will give 5 Upari Crystals on the average for 1485 credits so let's round to 300 credits per crystal. The cost is about the same for the fragments. In any event we now have, assuming Bioware lets us use the lowest material requirements, 20 crystals, 20 fragments and 20 Cortosis Substrates at 400 each if they're bought through the crew skills vendor. That puts the bare minimum cost at 20,000 credits for the synthweaver to make. If anyone charges less than 20,000 credits they are losing money on each transaction. However, I'm assuming they're doing this to make a profit. The only way this ends up being cheaper on your server is if the person selling them is fine taking the time to craft 10 items, reverse engineer them, craft the augmentation kit and put it up on the auction house for less than 10,000 credits profit for all that time.

If Bioware doesn't allow belts but instead makes it so chestpieces or something similar is used then you're looking at 100 crystals and fragments and 20 substrates if I remember correctly. That puts the bare minimum cost at 38,000 credits assuming no profit by the seller. Of course the seller will want a profit so he or she will charge more.

This is also assuming that level six crafting materials have no market on the Galactic Trade Market. If someone can get more than 300 credits per crystal by selling them on the Trade Market then they would be better off selling them on the Trade Market. Doing this would raise the prices of augmentation kits as people learn they can make more money selling the materials. If someone can sell the crystals and fragments for 500 each then the only way augmentation kits become viable is if the bare minimum cost is, at if belts and low material intensive items can be used, 28,000 plus mark up or if other items have to be used 58,000 plus mark up. You then need to also spend 50,000 to implement the kit. You also now, since there will be almost no demand for lower level materials, cannot sell them to make the credits. You will instead have to sell level six materials to make the credits to buy them unless you want to spend your credits from dailies, etc.

Don't get me wrong; I like the augmentation kit idea as it allows for greater customization. I don't believe it'll make anything cheaper as how it's currently proposed it will make for a weaker economy and is more of a credit sink than anything else. Especially as the augmentation table costs take the money completely out of the economy instead of giving it to another player that might be the goal though.

GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
05.18.2012 , 05:25 PM | #4
1. They already said the price for pulling out mods is going to go WAY down.

Quote: Originally Posted by Augustine View Post
I frankly don't care what your metrics are telling you. I'm sure there are players with 2m+ credits, there always are in every game. My point is that given the above issues another credit sink of 50k when it already costs 105k to re-mod a crit augmented piece of gear (555k total) plus the costs associated with 5-6 augments (I can craft my own fortunately) for another 500k (@ approx 100k per augment) puts the barrier to entry at the BM tier around 1m+ credits plus the time sink.

Correct me if I am wrong but you would like to add another 250k cost on to this via augment slot tables?
2. You don't need to spend that 105k to re-mod a crit augmented piece of gear. You can just spend that 50k to slap an augment slots into existing gear. You don't need critted gear (modding it or not) at all, unless you really like the look.

3. 100k per for an augment your crafting yourself? You must have a lot of people with a lot of money on your server willing to spend a boatload on mats, or some seriously greedy slicers fixing prices. Grade 6 purple augment mats are usually around 25k for 4 on my server, which would place the mat cost for the augments a tiny bit over that.

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
05.19.2012 , 06:30 AM | #5
The 50k price on adding augment slots is nothing more than a price ceiling on augmented crafted gear. Right now a chest with an aug slot is 80K on my server. Paying 50k to add that slot to the orange piece I already have saves me 30k, plus the cost of moving my mods. So after the aug tables get added, the most a crafter will be able to charge for a critted orange is roughly 50K. Which is a fair price given the cost of mats and the crit rate that currently happens.

I'm looking forward to this, because I'm using social gear, that can't be crafted- so aug slots are impossible for a lot of my gear.

Between Ilum, Belsavis, & Correlia you accumulate over 350k in credits and gear in under 4 hours of play. Just working up the comms for 1 implant you'll have over a million. Where's the problem?
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

Bartes's Avatar


Bartes
05.19.2012 , 07:18 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
Between Ilum, Belsavis, & Correlia you accumulate over 350k in credits and gear in under 4 hours of play. Just working up the comms for 1 implant you'll have over a million. Where's the problem?
this. This morning I made about 500k just by running around BH and killing elites, each drops like 1-3k creds and always drops some stuff you can sell for 500-8k creds. Took me like 1.2 hour not more.
Aes Sidhe

Bartas - lvl 50/70+ Gunslinger - Sharpshooter specced and lovin it!

MWidowmaker's Avatar


MWidowmaker
05.19.2012 , 08:04 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Chalpy View Post
I'll use your server's figures and overall game figures for this. Level six House Mecetti's Losses will give 5 Upari Crystals on the average for 1485 credits so let's round to 300 credits per crystal. The cost is about the same for the fragments. In any event we now have, assuming Bioware lets us use .

or you could, you know, go and get them for free from planets..... /facepalm

Chalpy's Avatar


Chalpy
05.19.2012 , 09:26 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by MWidowmaker View Post
or you could, you know, go and get them for free from planets..... /facepalm
Or you could, you know, run dailies, get 4 to 5 times the amount of credits in returns for the time spent than you would save from taking the time to get them for free from planets and then buy them on the trade network, do gathering missions, save yourself time if you have a limited amount of time to play, and sell the items for enough to make a profit instead.../ facepalm

wydrune's Avatar


wydrune
05.19.2012 , 05:26 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Chalpy View Post
Or you could, you know, run dailies, get 4 to 5 times the amount of credits in returns for the time spent than you would save from taking the time to get them for free from planets and then buy them on the trade network, do gathering missions, save yourself time if you have a limited amount of time to play, and sell the items for enough to make a profit instead.../ facepalm
The misconception that just because a person gathers their own materials it's free is a very rookie mistake. Your time should always have a value to it; account for that value in the retail price of the finished product. I see this mistake made in RL as well.

pokota's Avatar


pokota
05.19.2012 , 06:10 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by wydrune View Post
The misconception that just because a person gathers their own materials it's free is a very rookie mistake. Your time should always have a value to it; account for that value in the retail price of the finished product. I see this mistake made in RL as well.
Exactly. It doesn't matter where you got something, if you picked it up for "free" or if you over-paid on the GTN; the actual value of an item is the current market rate.

I'm not sure why people are OK with BioWare's desire to put huge financial roadblocks on armor switching, other than "I don't intend to do it often, so it doesn't really affect me". Personally, I think that's a pretty lame and short-sighted philosophy. I know that I would love the ability to switch armor often. Why BioWare is against that, I do not know, but it's just another negative in my book. I have nearly all Synth and Armormech patterns and my main has about two dozen orange armor pieces in storage. Not being able to change looks without a huge penalty is annoying to me.

Also, I'm a bit confused on something. Why are people responding that the cost will be a savings because "50k is less than augmented armor sells for now"? Isn't the 50k simply the table fee, which does not count the price of the augment kit (which we don't know) or of the piece of armor itself (which will almost certain rise)? It seems quite possible that on many servers, getting an augmented piece of gear will end up costing MORE. Never mind that if you're an armor crafter you'll have to shell out money upfront rather than simply pay with materials.

I really don't get it. It seems to me like they're trying to turn an incentive into a negative. Letting people change their appearance for a nominal fee could only be a positive thing on all fronts. Instead, most will simply stick with what they have, even if they find something they like better. I just don't see the value in having some players feel regretful without reason.