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Need help gearing


Aetou's Avatar


Aetou
05.18.2012 , 05:21 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Oggthebase View Post
the war hero gear armoring has a rating of 146 versus the 126 of columni gear and 116 for tionese gear.

However, in a pvp item, 25% to 30% of the item budget is spent on expertise, meaning that these points are completely useless in a PVE environment.
So from a PVE point of view, war hero gear would be, stats wise, between columni and tionese, and therefore completely relevant for normal mode operations, and to a limited extent, hard mode operations.
This isn't true. Compare a piece of augmented War Hero gear to a piece of Rakata and you'll find that the War Hero kit is actually on a par, if not slightly stronger. It is much, much better than Columi or the joke that is Tionese.

I know because I have both Augmented WH gear and full Rakata and I noticed as I went to swap my boots over that there was an awful lot of red on the comparison. So I took a few moments to look at my other augmented pieces (Head, Chest, Boots, Gun) and in every case found the WH piece to be similar but with slightly stronger secondary stats. We comfortably 1-shot both EV and KP HM with me in that gear even with other members of the group undergeared (and me healing, so not like I can hide behind people carrying me.)

Battlemaster is slightly inferior to Columi but still more than adequate to clear EV and KP in HM. I'd actually rather have people in BM gear than Tionese as the increased mitigation is very useful and they also have stronger output.

TLDR: War Hero gear, especially augmented, is fine for HM Ops and SM Denova. Anyone saying otherwise needs to actually compare the two.

Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
05.18.2012 , 05:33 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Aetou View Post
\We comfortably 1-shot both EV and KP HM with me in that gear even with other members of the group undergeared (and me healing, so not like I can hide behind people carrying me.)
This isn't intended as a disagreement with your post, but I feel I should point out that gear requirements for healers lag behind those for tanks and DPS for most instances. Denova story is a good example; healers can comfortably be a sub-tier below the rest of the raid and do fine.

Itemisation is also incredibly important, and imho, anyone who (for example) equips full stock Rakata and rolls up to a raid should be summarily given the boot. That's not elitism, it's just a reflection of the fact that stock tier gear is (for the most part) pretty badly itemised, and if you're not doing something about that you don't really understand anything about your class stat interactions. Sage/sorc healers are an excellent example: itemised Columi is ridiculously superior to vendor Rakata.

At any rate, to the OP, if your guild members are getting on your back about War Hero being insufficient for story mode raiding, they need to stop worrying about a lack of gear; their lack of intelligence is going to cause much bigger progression issues.

iTz_Red's Avatar


iTz_Red
05.18.2012 , 08:38 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurojiin View Post
At any rate, to the OP, if your guild members are getting on your back about War Hero being insufficient for story mode raiding, they need to stop worrying about a lack of gear; their lack of intelligence is going to cause much bigger progression issues.
You might be right about that..

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
05.19.2012 , 09:03 AM | #14
If your guildies are giving you a rash about your WH gear not being good enough for a Story mode Op, it's because they're rubbing your nose in it for being a PvPer & shining their own ePeen over their endgame gear. I thnk I'd show them up, and do the op with someone else.

I'm not into PvP much myself, but I've grouped enough with PvPer's for Op's & HM to know that BM gear is more than sufficient. And WH gear is even better. In fact, I havn't seen any SM or HM content yet that couldnt' be done without any endgame gear. It just requires good play.

#1 if your dps outgear your tank- they have to be smart enough to exercise some self control so that the tank will be able to tank. This is just a matter of not burst dpsing, and instead trying to spread out the cool downs.
#2 if your healer is undergeared, either take 2 healers or be smart ~ use CC as much as possible & stay out of the AoE damage.

I've not had a problem with dps being undergeared, so much as I've had a problem with them not being team players & actually working with the team to take down fights in a logical order, not using their defenssive CD's, and not changing their rotation to help the tank hold aggro. Not beating enrage timers is usually the result of dps getting hurt too much, and thus my not being able to contribute any dps at all / the tank constantly struggling to hold aggro instead of contributing dps.

If you play with people who want to exploit/ zerg their way through a HM, then gear can be important. But the gap between basic level 50 gear and endgame gear just isn't the big deal people make it out to be. The set bonuses arn't even a big deal. It's just people wanting to feel like they're better players because they achieved a drop you havn't. I've gotten quite a bit of endgame columi gear, and my companions are wearing almost all of it.

People on these forums are unclear on the concept of diminishing returns. The defininition here is "the point of diminishing returns" is the quantity of stat at which 1 more point of that stat will not grant you the same bonus as the previous point.

consider this... for your main stat- whatever it is- at a level of 1200pts
adding +100 to get to 1300 will give you 1300pts & a %8.33 improvement in everything that comes from that stat
adding another +100 will give you 1400pts & a %7.69 improvement
adding another +100 will give you 1500pts & a %7.14 ""
+100 for 1600pts gives a %6.66
+100 for 1700pts gives only a %6.25

That is, by definition, dimishing returns..... for the main stat, that everyone swears doesn't have a point of diminishing returns. Sure there is a huge difference between 1200 & 1700 (a %41 improvement over 1200). But the difference between 1635 and 1705 (70pts ~or~ %4) isn't going to determine whether or not you're capable of clearing content.
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
05.20.2012 , 01:43 AM | #15
I have to be blunt, Stop being lazy.
WH gear is great in a WZ, not so much in Pveland.
The disparity between pve and pvp gear is too great a gap in anything but story mode EV and KP.
"my warhero gear is better than columi" thats a false statement. The difference between a full set of WH and columi gear is massive, do you really think all that expertise comes at no stat loss? What about set bonuses? they don't factor in at all?

Honestly, if your guild is riding you about gearing you have 2 choices as I see it.
1. Play ball, spend a week farming HM's and get columi + geared.
2. Gquit.

Each set of gear has their area to shine in, don't gimp yourself or your friends.

Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
05.20.2012 , 02:02 AM | #16
Just did a rough check between my old gear COlumi + rakata chest vs my full set of BM gear.
SHould hopefully show you the difference that alittle expertise makes.
columi BM
Weap damage (top end) 967 947
Crit 36% 36%
Surge 75% 72%
Accuracy 95.1% 100%
Bonus damage 422 396

Now if you were a raid leader which would you rather go with?

I am aware its not WH gear that im comparing but its just to highlight the difference that expertise makes in an overall set of gear, not a piece by piece analysis.

MariLupus's Avatar


MariLupus
05.21.2012 , 09:49 AM | #17
BM and WH is fine for story mode on Eternity Vault and Karagas. In fact WH is better than Tionesse and almost on a par with Columni. So Just one gear up raid in story mode to get one or two Columni peices to swap some expertise to your primary PvE stat and you will be good for hard mode. Pleease not that story mode Explosive conflict is between hard and nightmare modes on the other two opperations gear wise.

If you have a very good rotation and the rest of your party are in full columni or better there is no reason not to go straight to hard mode opperations.

*Sigh* Raided last night Karagas HM with a player that had near full BM gear and had actualy sliped WH armmorings mods etc into his one peice of Rakata. Made the raid slightly harder than expected but we got through.
At last we will reveal ourselves to the Trolls. At last we will have revenge.
Guildleader Mayhen, Nightmare Lands republic guild.

tkinnunzero's Avatar


tkinnunzero
05.21.2012 , 10:09 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Karasuko View Post
Just did a rough check between my old gear COlumi + rakata chest vs my full set of BM gear.
SHould hopefully show you the difference that alittle expertise makes.
columi BM
Weap damage (top end) 967 947
Crit 36% 36%
Surge 75% 72%
Accuracy 95.1% 100%
Bonus damage 422 396

Now if you were a raid leader which would you rather go with?

I am aware its not WH gear that im comparing but its just to highlight the difference that expertise makes in an overall set of gear, not a piece by piece analysis.
Columi: (967+422)*(0.36*0.75+1)*0.951 = 1678
BH: (947+396)*(0.36*0.72+1)*1.00 = 1691

To me it looks like BH is slightly better, so I'd go with that.

But I'm no raid leader, maybe you could elaborate a bit?
How is (my cooking / SWTOR's Legacy in 1.3)?
- It is NOT that bad.

BigRedRocket's Avatar


BigRedRocket
05.21.2012 , 10:14 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by iTz_Red View Post
I have full War Hero Gear and my guild is getting on my back because they think it's not good enough for a normal ops raid. (I'm one of two people in my guild who pvp a lot) I did the comparason and it seems as though War Hero gear is better than the Columi gear and the only way to get the Rakata stuff, from what I've heard, is you have to do the Ops. Unless I'm wrong.

Should I just give up my War Hero gear and just downgrade to the Columi? Or will I still be fine in Normal Ops with my current gear?
Tell your guild to take a chill pill. I started doing Normal Ops in BM gear. So yeah..you'll be more than fine

RiseOfDeath's Avatar


RiseOfDeath
05.21.2012 , 10:23 AM | #20
Okay...

Although the primary stats in BM/War Hero gear might be a little bit low, the mods/enhancements have the exact same stats as the PVE equivalent PLUS the expertise. The armoring is the only thing that has low stats, as it takes a good amount of the primary stats and puts in some expertise. For some reason the mods and enhancements aren't like that, though.

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Anyway, if you get the augmented set of your war hero gear and put in willpower augments (+18 willpower and +12 endurance), you'll bump up your primary stats back up.

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With my augmented war hero gear, I've been dps in HM EV and HM KP no problem. I haven't tried normal mode EC with it though, but I think I could manage it too (maybe not the whole raid but some of it :P). Go madness spec for dps, though, it's better imo.

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I have a tanking set of actual pve gear for tanking, and I use the war hero augmented for dps. No complaints by anyone, and no problems.
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