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PvP 101: How To Become A Contender!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
PvP 101: How To Become A Contender!

Achyuta's Avatar


Achyuta
05.25.2012 , 09:29 AM | #71
Good Guide... Can't stress enough about the teamwork and the do's and don'ts in the warzones!
Lord Kha§z Sith Jugg

Comalv's Avatar


Comalv
05.25.2012 , 11:29 AM | #72
Hey, I got to this thread by a Link from the community homepage. I think it's fairly great, and I wish everyone (at least on PVP servers) followed it, it would be a good start.

There are however some fairly mis-leading points which I'll try to address without being too much of a geek or theorycrafter.



Quote: Originally Posted by Lunez View Post

The moment your Battlemaster set is complete, start converting WZ Comms into Ranked WZ Comms!


....

...


What people don't often realize is that Expertise has a cap in which it begins to provide diminishing returns. The deminishing returns on your Expertise bonus occurs roughly around 20% and to go beyond 20% is basically a wasted gear slot that could be utilized far greater with a different stat combination. Ways to maximize this effort are accomplished by either exchanging that item slot with a piece of non-PvP armor, or more effectively, ripping out select mods and replacing them with superior mods that boost your stats in a more beneficial manner.

1) Wrong for almost all classes, at least if you have access to a lvl 50 character in the Republic. War Hero (especially the 7 armor pieces) is a very small upgrade from BattleMaster (if you compare it from the upgrade Recruit->BM), so there are better and quicker way to become more competitive (it's the whole point of the guide, isn't it?) in a lot less time. Battlemaster gear comes with no Enhancements that provide Surge Rating (it's always Power or Crit matched with Accuracy or Alacrity). If you had Enhancements with Surge Rating you could increase the damage your critical hits deal by a good 25% (and if you are full BM you will crit between 22 and 45% of your attacks).

You need Surge Rating.

This is especially true if your class (and spec) doesn't need alacrity but it is also true to some extent if it does, as alacrity reaches diminishing returns fairly quickly and accuracy is blatantly useless in PVP.

How to get them? Extract them from Troopers' Battlemaster cannons (Medic for Crit/Surge. Eliminator for Power/Surge). They cost 1550 Warzone Commendations each and swapping them all for your stock BM enhancements (at the cost of 9300 commendations) will net you far better performance improvements than spending those commendations in 2 War Hero implants or 1 piece of War Hero armor (can't buy much more with 3100 Ranked Commendations).

I understand you want to add a guide about Mod Extraction, but this needs to be pointed out right now, as getting a minor upgrade just because it's called War Hero is a mistake if you have access to these enhancments.

Please Note: Imperial Characters have no access whatsoever to this kind of enhancements (no weapons with power/surge or crit/surge) directly, it can be done indirectly if you have a lvl 50 Republic alt character but it's a fairly expensive process.





On the second point I also disagree. After 1.2 Expertise is king regardless of how much expertise you have. When comparing the same amount of 2 stats Expertise will be better than any other stat (+41 Expertise will be better than +41 Power or +41 Critical Rating or +41 Main Stat), with the current plotted Expertise curves on other forums this is true for all amounts of expertise currently reachable with the known gear.

It might still be better to swap an item with Expertise for one without, but the one without has to provide way higher stats than the amount of expertise lost in the process (for example a belt with +67 Expertise might provide a lesser damage boost than one with a PvE armoring and a PvP Mod). But the general rule is that Expertise is king, and BioWare has done a very good job in making it so with 1.2

Lunez's Avatar


Lunez
05.25.2012 , 11:43 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Comalv View Post
Hey, I got to this thread by a Link from the community homepage. I think it's fairly great, and I wish everyone (at least on PVP servers) followed it, it would be a good start.

There are however some fairly mis-leading points which I'll try to address without being too much of a geek or theorycrafter.

1) Wrong for almost all classes, at least if you have access to a lvl 50 character in the Republic. War Hero (especially the 7 armor pieces) is a very small upgrade from BattleMaster (if you compare it from the upgrade Recruit->BM), so there are better and quicker way to become more competitive (it's the whole point of the guide, isn't it?) in a lot less time. Battlemaster gear comes with no Enhancements that provide Surge Rating (it's always Power or Crit matched with Accuracy or Alacrity). If you had Enhancements with Surge Rating you could increase the damage your critical hits deal by a good 25% (and if you are full BM you will crit between 22 and 45% of your attacks).

You need Surge Rating.

This is especially true if your class (and spec) doesn't need alacrity but it is also true to some extent if it does, as alacrity reaches diminishing returns fairly quickly and accuracy is blatantly useless in PVP.

How to get them? Extract them from Troopers' Battlemaster cannons (Medic for Crit/Surge. Eliminator for Power/Surge). They cost 1550 Warzone Commendations each and swapping them all for your stock BM enhancements (at the cost of 9300 commendations) will net you far better performance improvements than spending those commendations in 2 War Hero implants or 1 piece of War Hero armor (can't buy much more with 3100 Ranked Commendations).

I understand you want to add a guide about Mod Extraction, but this needs to be pointed out right now, as getting a minor upgrade just because it's called War Hero is a mistake if you have access to these enhancments.

Please Note: Imperial Characters have no access whatsoever to this kind of enhancements (no weapons with power/surge or crit/surge) directly, it can be done indirectly if you have a lvl 50 Republic alt character but it's a fairly expensive process.

On the second point I also disagree. After 1.2 Expertise is king regardless of how much expertise you have. When comparing the same amount of 2 stats Expertise will be better than any other stat (+41 Expertise will be better than +41 Power or +41 Critical Rating or +41 Main Stat), with the current plotted Expertise curves on other forums this is true for all amounts of expertise currently reachable with the known gear.

It might still be better to swap an item with Expertise for one without, but the one without has to provide way higher stats than the amount of expertise lost in the process (for example a belt with +67 Expertise might provide a lesser damage boost than one with a PvE armoring and a PvP Mod). But the general rule is that Expertise is king, and BioWare has done a very good job in making it so with 1.2
All in all, some great added info and I really appreciate you taking the time to pick apart some pieces for me. Its critical that people help tear things apart so that they can be rebuilt back together again, and in a more accurate fashion. Thanks Comalv!

Some of the Expertise section needs work and is outdated, but I must counter your disagreement regarding war hero by stating that the War Hero set-bonus is not clothing-based, but mod-based. So using your information provided above regarding mixing and ripping mods from other classes, this is solid information, one should apply that to augmented war-hero level custom armor, using the war hero armor-mod (for the sets) then mixing the other mods to maximizing effort. Either way, war hero pieces are essential if just for the mods themselves that come with it.

Thanks again! Any other suggestions would be greatly welcomed!

Jorgus_Krenn's Avatar


Jorgus_Krenn
05.25.2012 , 01:29 PM | #74
Very useful! Great post.

prodigal_punk's Avatar


prodigal_punk
05.25.2012 , 06:09 PM | #75
I like this. I'm going to direct our new 50's to this via our Message of the Day.

I would also add, in regards to guilds- Make friends with the crafters. They are your best route for augments and augmented gear. Offer trades for your particular craft, offer to farm mats, etc. we have had good success by having one person supply all the neural augmentors or whatever they're called, farmed by one person to supply all augment crafters. The rest supported by supplying money to get slicing to 400. If there is a craft that is lacking, offer to change to it or have one of your alt's take up that skill- no matter which one it is.

flem's Avatar


flem
05.26.2012 , 10:20 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Comalv View Post
How to get them? Extract them from Troopers' Battlemaster cannons (Medic for Crit/Surge. Eliminator for Power/Surge). They cost 1550 Warzone Commendations each and swapping them all for your stock BM enhancements (at the cost of 9300 commendations) will net you far better performance improvements than spending those commendations in 2 War Hero implants or 1 piece of War Hero armor (can't buy much more with 3100 Ranked Commendations).
You don't need five enhancements to softcap Surge. BM implants should have it, and for some classes even the ear. In fact, this is unnecessarily stalling your gearup process to maximize effectiveness at a level you won't be at for very long.

Better to make your first WH armor piece one of the Surge ones. That should net you ~150 total, which is a respectable 68%. You also get to start down the augment+set bonus path.
Jedi Covenant | Formerly: Squadron 840; Shii-Cho | Bring back warzone pets!

funcheung's Avatar


funcheung
05.27.2012 , 08:16 PM | #77
check out this match to get an idea
click here

Boufsa's Avatar


Boufsa
05.29.2012 , 06:35 AM | #78
Made a reference to this guide from my post Gunnery Commando PVP Guide. Thanks for the helpful guide

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
05.30.2012 , 11:22 AM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunez View Post
(1) Your server may not be balanced. Don't fret, this will be fixed with the server merger and/or cross server PvP. Just relax and wait for the glory days to come. It's not uncommon to have one faction be significantly stronger than the other. On some servers, the Republic outweighs the Imperial, or visa versa. This causes a lot of people to claim that the PvP is unbalanced, but in reality, PvP balance has nothing to do with it, and has more to do with the lack of playerbase within that faction.
This statement contains a lie. There are no servers where the Republic outnumbers the Imperials, the Republic is universally outnumbered in this game.
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

DarthPunitor's Avatar


DarthPunitor
05.30.2012 , 12:30 PM | #80
just like to say that pvp has gotten progressively better for me. i cant emphasize how important expertise is, though. The more you have the better you will do, and if you don't have enough then it wont matter how skilled you are (my pve geared guildies have proved this so many times).
"Honor is a lie, a chain that wraps itself around those foolish enough to accept it and drags them down to defeat."
-Gauntlet of Kresh (formerly)-
-The Tai Legacy- -Tai'for - Punitor - Lithany - Machiavelli - Davik -Her'acles-