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Reverse engineer broken since latest patch ?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Reverse engineer broken since latest patch ?

tyranusdarec's Avatar


tyranusdarec
05.10.2012 , 01:21 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by okwathne View Post
Random is random, and it's a *****....
No such thing as truly random on a computer.

Tyr

"It is better to die for the Emperor than to live for yourself."

Cerion's Avatar


Cerion
05.10.2012 , 03:22 PM | #12
<sigh>

Yes. This is exactly how RNG works. Let me put it this way. If there was a 99.999% chance of success, then it is entirely possible that 1 in 100,000 would fail. If you you've got a million people crafting (for argument's sake), then 10 of those people may likely fail at something that seems to be a sure bet, ie 99.999%. Now I'm sure each of those 10 people would feel like the system is broken because it failed them. But given a large enough pool, somebody WILL fail.

Same is going on here. Given the large pool of crafters, someone IS almost guaranteed to have very bad streaks of luck. In this case, that someone happens to be the OP.
Good will always triumph because Evil is lazy.

rjkishida's Avatar


rjkishida
05.10.2012 , 07:04 PM | #13
This is a common problem. Bioware says the RE chance for Blue schematics is 20%. Most crafters call that ********. Fanboi defenders say that statistics sometimes suck. No Mr Fanboi, Bioware's RE system sucks.

Sithhelmet's Avatar


Sithhelmet
05.10.2012 , 07:34 PM | #14
I started reverse engineering like a madman last week. I kept track of how many REs I did and how many schematics I learned.

Between then and the patch on Tuesday I learned 73 schematics, taking 406 tries. That's about 17.98%

Since Tuesday morning's patch, I've still been at it, and I was shocked to find that I've RE'd 407 more items (just off by one) and have gotten 74 schematics (again, off by one.) That's 18.18(repeating)%.

I counted strings of failures, the first long one last night was 22 between discoveries and the second long one was 28. A couple were in the teens, but for the most part it's consistent with what I'd expect if the RE chance were 20%.

coille's Avatar


coille
05.10.2012 , 08:36 PM | #15
I had the same problem the other night. I made about 15 blue enhancements and re engineered them to try to get a purple schematic. No luck. I was re-engineering them as soon as they were made. I spoke to a guildie who suggested having ten in my inventory and then renegineering them so I did that and it worked first time. Maybe that's the key?

SteveGarbage's Avatar


SteveGarbage
05.10.2012 , 08:56 PM | #16
Ugh, another RE thread...

RE isn't broken. I RE'd schematics for new Lvl 48 shields and generators with my Sentinel today. One for Rusk's generator took two tries, the T7 shield took me five tries. I also managed to RE a schematic for a purple-grade red crystal after four tries.

Now to go through this again:
If you have a 20 percent chance to RE, that means you have a 80 percent chance to fail.
This result is INDEPENDENT. There is no cumulative effect that reduces the fail rate after each subsequent failure. So whether you RE the first time or the 1000th time, you always have an 80 percent chance to fail.

The probability of failing many times in a row is low, but not impossible. If you flip a coin 20 times, the chance of flipping 20 heads in a row is 1 in 1.05 million. But if you flip 19 heads in a row, you still have a 50 percent chance to flip a tail and a 50 percent chance to flip a head on that 20th flip.

Expecting to be "due" is the gambler's fallacy. Although the chance of failing 20 or 50 or 80 times in a row as a whole is small, you still have an 80 percent chance to fail every time you try to RE.

Now as to whether the RNG is functioning properly or not, I can't say. But I haven't had any problems. Bad streaks do happen and I haven't noticed any changes recently in that.
Ebon Hawk Server - RP/East
Arteris Silverquill 50 Sentinel Watchman
|||Father of|||
Arianya Silverquill 20 Shadow Kinetic

Cerion's Avatar


Cerion
05.10.2012 , 09:59 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by rjkishida View Post
This is a common problem. Bioware says the RE chance for Blue schematics is 20%. Most crafters call that ********. Fanboi defenders say that statistics sometimes suck. No Mr Fanboi, Bioware's RE system sucks.
I'd love to see any facts or proof that 'most' crafters call this b.s.

I'm reminded of the Arthur C. Clarke quote: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Good will always triumph because Evil is lazy.

Cerion's Avatar


Cerion
05.10.2012 , 10:04 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Sithhelmet View Post
I started reverse engineering like a madman last week. I kept track of how many REs I did and how many schematics I learned.

Between then and the patch on Tuesday I learned 73 schematics, taking 406 tries. That's about 17.98%

Since Tuesday morning's patch, I've still been at it, and I was shocked to find that I've RE'd 407 more items (just off by one) and have gotten 74 schematics (again, off by one.) That's 18.18(repeating)%.

I counted strings of failures, the first long one last night was 22 between discoveries and the second long one was 28. A couple were in the teens, but for the most part it's consistent with what I'd expect if the RE chance were 20%.
Stop it. Science and math hurts peoples brains. Why do you want to hurt people's brains?
Good will always triumph because Evil is lazy.

Kelord's Avatar


Kelord
05.10.2012 , 10:32 PM | #19
Chance to get purple reserch throught RE is now 10%. I broke 15-20 blue implant, before got purple reserch, but with not-desired characteristics. Crafting at mid-levels was little demand before, and now it is at all a waste of time and money.

Sithhelmet's Avatar


Sithhelmet
05.10.2012 , 10:54 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Kelord View Post
Chance to get purple reserch throught RE is now 10%. I broke 15-20 blue implant, before got purple reserch, but with not-desired characteristics. Crafting at mid-levels was little demand before, and now it is at all a waste of time and money.
Yes, it was much better when you had an undisclosed chance and your chance would be eaten up by a "You already know that schematic."

And as for having 10 items to RE in your inventory, that only works with lottery tickets, not with the game. The real reason why it worked first time is that the moon had risen and was shining over your left shoulder. THAT'S what makes RE work.
(Even the Monte Carlo fallacy makes more sense, "I wuz due!" than that.)

Do like I'm doing. Track your RE's long-term. Granted, mine are still a small sample, even though I'm nearing 1k myself.

I'll also add this for you to think about: I'm RE'ing items fully, meaning I'm getting EVERY prefix in purple- Anti-Armor, Commander's, Endowment, Exactitude, Expert, Fervor, General's Hawkeye, Leadership, Rampart, Supremacy, Tempest, Vehemence and Veracity. I doubt I'll go much further with this from what I've done, but it's clear to me that now when you've eliminated all other iterations you have a 100% chance to get the last on the next discovery roll. (I.E. when you RE something it will give a chance that you will learn something, where formerly you would get the message "you already know that schematic," now it will reroll the second chance to give you one you didn't have. For that alone everyone new to RE should be grateful. Mind you, I'd already RE'd heavy armor to Hawkeye and/or Overkill up to 30 in artifact and most to Endowment in medium in armormech, so I'd already paid the price on the chancy RE's pre-1.2. So I can say, "Back in my day we RE'd uphill- BOTH WAYS. ON HOTH!")