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Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

NDiggy's Avatar


NDiggy
05.14.2012 , 09:19 AM | #271
Quote: Originally Posted by netskink View Post
I agree. I have yet to buy any recruit gear. Most of our games are huttball. I've maxed my medal count out more often than not using crafted pve 49 purples.

I would rather spend the cash on other things than throwaway gear. If you could buy the best gear in the game, I would consider it. But its so simple to get BM gear that its a waste of money.

Now I do think its funny when people come in with greens and blues that lvl 40 or lower. I kid you not, I saw a guy in lvl 50 pvp with a lvl 20 relic once.

I am editing this post to say a few more things.

Expertise will not help you do the following things:

o In huttball, when the ball carrier is a leaper, expertise will not prevent him from force leaping to you as you stand on the ledge.

o At any time, your cc/mezzzes/interrupts are not mitigated by expertise.

o Expertise does not help you jump the vents, or auto-pass for you..

o Expertise does not prevent you from being pushed into the fire, the pit or off the catwalk.

o Expertise does not enable you to detect stealth better. Likewise it does not make you more steatlhy.

o Expertise will not pop your cooldowns or relics. Nor will it tell you its time to get the buffs on the bg. It will not automagically cause you to use the ledges or catwalks.

o Expertise will not enable you to jump into a crowd of oppoents and stand in their aoe.

o Expertise will not change your keyboard turning into mouse turning.

o Expertise will not magically make you target the ball carrier or the healer with him. It will also not automatically cause you to seperate the tank using guard from his pal in some way.

I could go on and on.
This isn't a skill issue. The fact is, with no expertise you're only hurting your team. You don't even have to spend credits on the set, you can get it for free out at Outlaws Den. There is no excuse not to wear the Recruit set.
A countryman between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats. -
Benjamin Franklin

SneakyErvin's Avatar


SneakyErvin
05.14.2012 , 09:24 AM | #272
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
How is it not viable? Over all 14 pieces? If I did it over 1000 pieces the trade off would still be the same +EXP - DMG BONUS, and that still assumes a 1 for one trade. Not only is that true, but as I stated previously....
Do you want me to swap all 14? I THOUGHT these two pieces would be better simply because they are not moddable and ONLY have values controlled by BW.



Please tell me how you would test it? You say I haven't posted anything of substance, but you haven't posted anything... Cmon, show me where I screwed up. I'll admit I'm wrong if you show me ANYTHING that directly refutes my statements, but you can't because you don't have a sage @50 and you don't have the PvE equivs..... I have given you all the info I can on this.... So now I will just give you the last word and move on. Ready? Go....
Your difference in expertise is too low, and DR is higher for other secondary stats, so your testing is compromized on this at first. You have provided zero tests outside of WZs, you have posted 2 results that were equal, where expertise was showing a higher trade off at a higher % than a lower. This was also with a lower value range in your ability tooltip. Still you claim expertise being inferior, when it already gives a higher trade off at minimal expertise, even with a lower tooltip value ont he ability.

It only gains more and more the more expertise you get compared to secondary stats that are early on effected by DR at a higher degree. Still you claim them better than expertise. You claim a full rakata set is as good for pvp as a full BM set. You have absolutely no clue how expertise works in reality, you think you do from a paper point of view.

The difference between a full rakata and a full BM sets are huge when it comes to PvP.

Compare the stats on the full sets, see the minor difference in stats and the huge difference in pure buffs to damage, mitigation and healing in pvp.

edit: I've also already told you I've done the proper tests at 50 with my sorc i.e same as sage, flagged on fleet, unflagged and out of combat in WZs, but you never bothered to check that did you? Results were the exact same on all tries. That was done to prove that expertise does not kick in outside of active combat i.e the trauma buff getting applied.
Ahahahahah!!

netskink's Avatar


netskink
05.14.2012 , 09:48 AM | #273
Quote: Originally Posted by NDiggy View Post
This isn't a skill issue. The fact is, with no expertise you're only hurting your team. You don't even have to spend credits on the set, you can get it for free out at Outlaws Den. There is no excuse not to wear the Recruit set.
I have been on many winning teams and have maxed my medal count with various toons without it. Albeit I have also been roll stomped without it. However, I will never buy it. And yes, I do have one toon who farms the free recruit gear. I have at least 4 pieces so far.

For the anti-point on expertise gear. We have a guy on our server who is in partial WH and full BM gear. He does not talk, he really does not even move much. He has a reaction time of a slug. I believe he is a kid. Everyone knows him. I always vote him mvp in fact, because he is so bad. However, he is great for testing your rotation on. Attack him and you will get 5 shots in before he slowly keyboard turns to face you.

I enjoy popping a relic and a stim to see how much I can hit him for. I know when I can quickly hurt him, my expertise is high enough to begin going toe-to-toe with the big boys.

Maybe when I have rocket boots lvl 3 and a pimped out ship, then I will spend the cash to buy throwaway recruit gear. Until then I will simply farm pvp dailies to get my bm gear.
50s Dapengzi, Wicked Wanda, Blind'Anma, Meiling, Xiaowan, Relee Lowbies Xiaojiejie, Tarheel Tank, The Wait, Tarheal 1xConquerer, 3xWH. 2xBM.
Guild: www.heiankongzhi.com Fatman - PVP Imperial - Recruiting
SWTOR Videos: http://www.heiankongzhi.com/home/swtor/videos

RefugeASSASSIN's Avatar


RefugeASSASSIN
05.14.2012 , 10:06 AM | #274
Quote: Originally Posted by RoninUTA View Post
You have the absolute right to leave the game at any time just as I have the absolue right to queue solo with nothing on at all. Tell me this, what would stop me from purchasing Recruit gear, queuing up, and stripping down to the gray undies and streaking all over the huttball arena? In fact now I'm tempted to do that even more. I'm not in WZs to win, I'm in to have fun and if I win all the better; icing on the cake so to speak.
Well I am in the WZ to win it, why should your lackadaisical playstyle trump mine? You get a bonus when I carry you and you win a warzone, I get penalized while you screw around in pre-50 gear and we dont win, granted its not as bad now that we get 1 daily credit for a loss, but thats not helping me finish my weekly any quicker.

The whole "I can do what I want arugment" doesnt make you look like any less of an ***.
Keefan Noonan
Darkness Tankasin
Jedi Covenant

RoninUTA's Avatar


RoninUTA
05.14.2012 , 10:37 AM | #275
Quote: Originally Posted by RefugeASSASSIN View Post
Well I am in the WZ to win it, why should your lackadaisical playstyle trump mine? You get a bonus when I carry you and you win a warzone, I get penalized while you screw around in pre-50 gear and we dont win, granted its not as bad now that we get 1 daily credit for a loss, but thats not helping me finish my weekly any quicker.

The whole "I can do what I want arugment" doesnt make you look like any less of an ***.
Personally speaking, I have no problem with how I appear to other people, opinions vary. If you know I'm being carried by your skill and do not like it, feel free to leave at any point. You can do what you like as well, isn't free will a kicker Why should your over enthusiastic play style trump mine? Also feel free to verbally berate me in chat. I welcome all criticisms.

RefugeASSASSIN's Avatar


RefugeASSASSIN
05.14.2012 , 10:56 AM | #276
Quote: Originally Posted by RoninUTA View Post
Personally speaking, I have no problem with how I appear to other people, opinions vary. If you know I'm being carried by your skill and do not like it, feel free to leave at any point. You can do what you like as well, isn't free will a kicker Why should your over enthusiastic play style trump mine? Also feel free to verbally berate me in chat. I welcome all criticisms.
Its obvious you dont care how you look to other people.

Quote:
feel free to leave at any point
So now I have to leave because your playing like a douchbag? What are you saving those 300k credits for? Repair bills because you go into endgame PVE content with the same mindset about gear that gets your squad wiped? You can hide behind your arrogant "I can do what I want" comments all you want, but like it or not you are basically griefing your teamates by not doing what you can to help them win.

Would I report you for not buying Recruit gear as was suggested in an earlier post? No. Would I verbally berate you for it? After about the 4th or 5th WZ in a row where we are getting rolled and your running around with 0 expertise, im damn sure going to say something in a constructive manner. Its when you respond like a child that you can do what you want that youll get the attention your craving from me.
Keefan Noonan
Darkness Tankasin
Jedi Covenant

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.14.2012 , 11:03 AM | #277
Quote: Originally Posted by SneakyErvin View Post
Your difference in expertise is too low, and DR is higher for other secondary stats, so your testing is compromized on this at first. You have provided zero tests outside of WZs, you have posted 2 results that were equal, where expertise was showing a higher trade off at a higher % than a lower. This was also with a lower value range in your ability tooltip. Still you claim expertise being inferior, when it already gives a higher trade off at minimal expertise, even with a lower tooltip value ont he ability.

It only gains more and more the more expertise you get compared to secondary stats that are early on effected by DR at a higher degree. Still you claim them better than expertise. You claim a full rakata set is as good for pvp as a full BM set. You have absolutely no clue how expertise works in reality, you think you do from a paper point of view.

The difference between a full rakata and a full BM sets are huge when it comes to PvP.

Compare the stats on the full sets, see the minor difference in stats and the huge difference in pure buffs to damage, mitigation and healing in pvp.

edit: I've also already told you I've done the proper tests at 50 with my sorc i.e same as sage, flagged on fleet, unflagged and out of combat in WZs, but you never bothered to check that did you? Results were the exact same on all tries. That was done to prove that expertise does not kick in outside of active combat i.e the trauma buff getting applied.
I did!!!!! You didn't notice the deliverance values AND all stats in WZs were the same as they were on the ones when I was at the fleet? Plus, I used YOUR criteria to when "EXP kicks in" on all of them. Plus, you still haven't shown ANYTHING. Show me your "proper tests" dude. I told you I have a TON more screens where the fell in the accepted range.
I was waiting for you to respond, because I knew it would happen, I could just shut up...... Naw wait. Since you got a sorc and you don't have ANY Rakata pieces, I'll be the one who drops down a few levels to make it easier on you. Here let's do this.

PUT YOUR "MONEY" WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS

YOU: BUY 100% RECRUIT GEAR FOR 350K AND TAKE A SCREEN OF "DEATH FIELD" AS STATED ON THE TOOLTIP WHILE YOU ARE AT FLEET. THEN APPLY 100% YOUR EXP DAMAGE BONUS TO THE MAX TT VALUE.

ME: ZERO-OUT EXP ENTIRELY, TAKE A SCREEN OF MY "FORCE in BALANCE" AS STATED BY THE TOOLTIP.

DON'T USE ANY RELICS/STIMS/ADR/PLAYER BUFFS- This will be shown above your HP anyway, but just to put it out there.

DON'T CHEAT- ALL of my screens shows my stats pulled up, buffs applied, and my tooltip value (even while IN-COMBAT in WZs (the values and tooptip reading was up)).


If your calc'd value, exceeds mine, I will pay your dues next month.. Just send me your email and I will send it via PP.
If I exceed it, NOTHING. The joy of you spending 350K in credits is enough for me...
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

SneakyErvin's Avatar


SneakyErvin
05.14.2012 , 11:25 AM | #278
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
I did!!!!! You didn't notice the deliverance values AND all stats in WZs were the same as they were on the ones when I was at the fleet? Plus, I used YOUR criteria to when "EXP kicks in" on all of them. Plus, you still haven't shown ANYTHING. Show me your "proper tests" dude. I told you I have a TON more screens where the fell in the accepted range.
I was waiting for you to respond, because I knew it would happen, I could just shut up...... Naw wait. Since you got a sorc and you don't have ANY Rakata pieces, I'll be the one who drops down a few levels to make it easier on you. Here let's do this.

PUT YOUR "MONEY" WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS

YOU: BUY 100% RECRUIT GEAR FOR 350K AND TAKE A SCREEN OF "DEATH FIELD" AS STATED ON THE TOOLTIP WHILE YOU ARE AT FLEET. THEN APPLY 100% YOUR EXP DAMAGE BONUS TO THE MAX TT VALUE.

ME: ZERO-OUT EXP ENTIRELY, TAKE A SCREEN OF MY "FORCE in BALANCE" AS STATED BY THE TOOLTIP.

DON'T USE ANY RELICS/STIMS/ADR/PLAYER BUFFS- This will be shown above your HP anyway, but just to put it out there.

DON'T CHEAT- ALL of my screens shows my stats pulled up, buffs applied, and my tooltip value (even while IN-COMBAT in WZs (the values and tooptip reading was up)).


If your calc'd value, exceeds mine, I will pay your dues next month.. Just send me your email and I will send it via PP.
If I exceed it, NOTHING. The joy of you spending 350K in credits is enough for me...
Doesnt work that way and please go easy on the caps button, no need to break it.

You cant test things like you claim, the only way to properly test things is to have a full set of gear at a certain rating, one of each type. Like 2 sets of 128 rating or something. On has expertise the other doesnt. You cant test it any other way. The only thing you can properly test is if expertise has any impact outside of combat, which it doesnt.

I did 25 "casts" during each condition, they all came back the same. Because expertise doesnt trigger out of combat. You need to test on fleet, flagged and unflagged, aswell as out of combat and in combat in WZs and make the proper calculations if you dont take my word for it.

Your tests are halfassed and prove squat. You should use a combat log parcer if you want anything closely to scientific in your testing. But as I said, pull out a good comparison between rakata and BM pure stats (main and secondary. Post it here and I can discuss it with you why expertise is better.

I'm going to be nice to you and log on ym sorc and check deathfield in his current gear, old champion gear with a BM weapon and BM bracer/belt and let you know it, with stats and all, wont take any screeny but will tell you the current buffs here in a post.

edit: My sorc stats in champion gear with bm weapon+belt+bracers. Buffs, sorc buff, agent buff, BH buff, rakata willp. stim.

willp. 1576
endurance 1335
b-dmg 692
exp 804 (16.89%, 14.30%, 9.14%)
crit 30%
surge 76.36 342 rating
deathfield dmg 1583-1628 (1850-1903 with exp)
Creeping terror 1856/18s (2169/18s with exp)
Froce lighting 2858/3s (3341/3s with exp)
Ahahahahah!!

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.14.2012 , 11:39 AM | #279
Quote: Originally Posted by SneakyErvin View Post
Doesnt work that way and please go easy on the caps button, no need to break it.

You cant test things like you claim, the only way to properly test things is to have a full set of gear at a certain rating, one of each type. Like 2 sets of 128 rating or something. On has expertise the other doesnt. You cant test it any other way. The only thing you can properly test is if expertise has any impact outside of combat, which it doesnt.

I did 25 "casts" during each condition, they all came back the same. Because expertise doesnt trigger out of combat. You need to test on fleet, flagged and unflagged, aswell as out of combat and in combat in WZs and make the proper calculations if you dont take my word for it.

Your tests are halfassed and prove squat. You should use a combat log parcer if you want anything closely to scientific in your testing. But as I said, pull out a good comparison between rakata and BM pure stats (main and secondary. Post it here and I can discuss it with you why expertise is better.

I'm going to be nice to you and log on ym sorc and check deathfield in his current gear, old champion gear with a BM weapon and BM bracer/belt and let you know it, with stats and all, wont take any screeny but will tell you the current buffs here in a post.
So your answer is "no" to the challenge? Do you need me to send you credits for the recruit gear since they so easy to come by? LOL "Won't take a screeny?"

HOT GARBAGE, I say, HOT GARBAGE!!!

Just admit I'm right (tier for tier it don't matter), so recruit gear is just dumb in MOST cases.
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

SneakyErvin's Avatar


SneakyErvin
05.14.2012 , 11:43 AM | #280
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
So your answer is "no" to the challenge? Do you need me to send you credits for the recruit gear since they so easy to come by? LOL "Won't take a screeny?"

HOT GARBAGE, I say, HOT GARBAGE!!!

Just admit I'm right (tier for tier it don't matter), so recruit gear is just dumb in MOST cases.
Since you are so fast to post and use caps here I repost this.

My sorc stats in champion gear with bm weapon+belt+bracers. Buffs, sorc buff, agent buff, BH buff, rakata willp. stim.

willp. 1576
endurance 1335
b-dmg 692
exp 804 (16.89%, 14.30%, 9.14%)
crit 30%
surge 76.36 342 rating
deathfield dmg 1583-1628 (1850-1903 with exp)
Creeping terror 1856/18s (2169/18s with exp)
Froce lighting 2858/3s (3341/3s with exp)

Why should I buy recruit gear when I already have the champ gear, wase of credits.

Now do me a favor and post something similar to that without expertise. To be fair, take a culumni set with rak belt, bracers and weapon, that would be the best comparison.
Ahahahahah!!