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Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

RoninUTA's Avatar


RoninUTA
05.11.2012 , 02:09 PM | #251
Quote: Originally Posted by Dabrixmgp View Post
If you get to 50 and cant afford recruit gear you played the game wrong. I was able to buy my set and sets for my DPS companion and my Healer companion and still had 2 million left over.
It would be a stretch to say he played it "wrong", perhaps he really liked the beer in the cantina...nothing wrong with that at all. He gets to decide what is right/wrong. His credits, his toon, his accounts. Kudos to you for having so much money though. My toon is a broke drunkard.

SneakyErvin's Avatar


SneakyErvin
05.11.2012 , 02:24 PM | #252
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Do you not think I made sure all things were equal. You didn't even analyze the photos well enough to see I took great care to have the same buffs on...

Another excuse ("oh its not 100% accurate all the time")? WHAT!! Sounds like the begining of enlightenment to me.
Spells? What spells? Heals? Damage (did you know the other player's stats or if any DEBUFFS were present)? I am sure you have photos to prove this right?


Go look at the photos again. Your tool tip changes if you get a player buffs. 3132 is the minimum, after all Player buffs (Knight/Troop/Smugg)/ETC) were applied outside of the WZ. Now forward 1min, those same buffs still present as evident by the tool tip reading (or just look at the damn pictures above my HP bar) and I hit what i hit. In fact, I had the SAME player buffs(ALL 4 OF THEM) and my RAK WP STIM in ALL OF THE PHOTOS.

Lets be real here. Your "example" is a 28HP difference. My formula versus yours is 165HP and the order of magnitude is WAY smaller. ("2978 in the tooltip, but it peaked at 3006" versus "2236 or 2357") That is a WAY higher fluctuation...

Here I will give you a clue how I will prove being "in-combat" don't matter and ONLY the green on your Nameplate kicks in PvP stats:
What will my max heal with the trauma buff on while out of combat?
You are really not making sense. My peak at 3006 was a peak of the skill, uneffected by anything but the buffs on me, which changes the tooltip on the spell. The 2236 or 2357 has nothing to do with it, its just 2 different calculations, one being right, the other wrong, so there is no fluctuation to talk about. Your formula is wrong, you are stuck thinking about expertise effecting bonus damage in your character pane which it doesnt, so you cant calculate the final damage/healing that way.

Its also no excuse that it can peak, its FACT because it does peak above its intended value i.e the value stated in the tooltip as the highest possible heal. You are drifting away from the topic and you sound more than mildly angry and upset.

I proved you in my example earlier, that in full pvp gear you get no expertise healing bonus while out of combat, flagged, unflagged or in WZs. Keep claiming it, it doesnt change the fact that it doesnt.

I have no clue what your max trauma heal will be. Because I dont know your max value of the spell.

spellmax*0.7 = x*1.0752 = y Or whatever your expertise was.

Read this one more time once and for all what I have said to you several times earlier and you might get what is wrong with your calculations.

Expertise works just like any other ability that buffs/debuffs final end damage/healing. It works like Taunt, Deadly Throw, Trauma or any talent that increases an abilites damage by x%. Spells that effect and alter bonus damage in your character pane are Unnatural/Force Might. Read it over and over.
Ahahahahah!!

Rhadamanthine's Avatar


Rhadamanthine
05.11.2012 , 03:17 PM | #253
Quote: Originally Posted by Majestic_Jazz View Post
Well said and at least your response was a bit more mature and less of "You suck! Get out of my game!". So while I disagree with what you said, I still respect it.

Still, I maintain my stance. When I turn level 50, I am not going to purposely not play Warzones until I get enough credits to buy the recruit gear, no! If I just hit 50 and I decide that I want to play some warzones, I will do so. I am not going to stop myself because I don't want to offend others because I am "under geared". Why should I please these people? I play the game to please myself and that means playing what I want when I want.

Going back to what I said before, just cause you are anyone else was breaking bank once they hit 50 doesn't mean everyone else has the same situation. You don't know what that person may have or may not have been doing with their credits while leveling. With all these money sinks [Legacy comes to mind], it is really possible to hit L50 and have like only 60K in the bank. I know, it seems crazy but everyone's situation is unique. Maybe they spent their credits buying rare items [Thing the White crystals pre 1.2], or top of the line items [such as speeders]. Maybe they have gone broke running crew skill missions and haven't gotten tot he point where they are making a profit [it takes money to make money]. I can go on and on but my point is, not everyone is set it a bunch of credits once they hit 50.

Second, because they aren't set with credits, telling someone to just do dailies doesn't make any sense either. Again, this person has the right to play the game the way they want to play. Perhaps this person does not want to do dailies, maybe they just complete the game's story and decided that they are now bored with all that questing and does not want to have anything to do with PvE anymore until new content comes. Perhaps they want to grind Warzones to make credits [I know, it is crazy, but people might like this option]. So while they are playing WZs in green/orange gear, they might be taking that money earned and applying it to buy their first piece of Recruit gear and so on.

Not everyone who does not have full gear are people purposely trying to ruin the experience. Remember, we all start off at the bottom and must build ourselves back up. How we do that is unique to all of us. You might like to make your money through dailies, I might like to make my money through GTN, and the next person might like to make their money by grinding WZs. You might not agree with it, but you at least have to respect it.
I'll clarify what I dislike about low-gear toons PVPing: seeing them for more than about a day or two of straight play. The people who come on to try it without preparing beforehand I can understand, maybe they never paid attention to PVP and only discovered it way later at 50, or maybe they're only comfortable with the class by that point (some people take awhile for that to happen). It's when they just are badly geared and flaunt it as a part of some can't tell me what to do attitude over a long period of time that they become irritating. Until then, I'll try to do things like taking one of them with me to cap left on Civil War and leaving them to guard it and call incoming and so on. In Voidstar there's not a lot I can do for them because it degenerates into a melee and having no/little expertise post 1.2 means you're just wheat for the scythe in those situations.

Back before 1.2 I started saving comms for the 6 champ bags way later than a lot of people - around 40. I didn't have a ton of credits when I hit 50 (400k at the best) either, but I did hold back on the additional speeders until I had lots of moneymaking dallies at 50. Even browsing the GTN for nice mods on my oranges I saved up a decent amount, and I was leveling my crafting skills to boot. That was back when repairs cost more, and I was a tank for all the questing PVEing my group was doing. Throughout all the bags I opened (probably 30 or so), I only ever got 3 champ pieces. This is why I find the recruit gear system to be unbelievably better despite the price. Having no expertise was not fun at all, you just got swatted aside as a minor irritant. That's been multiplied by a decent amount post 1.2. I don't see how you could be having fun enduring that, because however bad it is for the more geared people on your team to have lesser geared people as teammates, at least they aren't being shown the respawn room as fast as you are.

As for current issues, here's an idea. You have expertise less than the total amount of expertise recruit set gives you, the game equips you (for the duration of the WZ only) with a recruit set with the spec being whatever you have the most talent points in, keeping any single piece of gear that has more expertise in it than the equivalent recruit piece. If at any point in the WZ your expertise drops below recruit set levels, you are kicked and a deserter debuff applied. That keeps people from trolling the system and also provides for a minimum level of competitiveness in our expertise-is-your-new-god WZs, while still leaving it up to the player to buy the credit-based PVP gear for open world PVP or whatever. If you're over leveled like I was (50 around the midpoint of Quesh or so), expertise gear helps with the random 50s who come around trying to gank people in their WZ gear. If you don't care and just want to PVP once in awhile then alright, but you won't have dudes with 20% damage increase applying that full 20% on you at least.

Gibbzter's Avatar


Gibbzter
05.11.2012 , 03:27 PM | #254
Quote: Originally Posted by Majestic_Jazz View Post
Whether you carry me or not is not my problem. Maybe you should take a videogame [glorified toy] just a little less seriously and hopefully that should solve your problems.

Again, pay my monthly subscription and I'll play the game the way you like. Until then, go sit down somewhere. I bought the game and I pay for it every month. I have the RIGHT to play the way I want to play and I am not going to stress myself out or alter my gameplay just to satisfy someone online that I never met or plan on ever meeting.
Doing 2 hours of dailies nets you the cost for the complete Recruit set, why are you complaining again? Go buy the Recruit set so the 7 other players don't carry you so much bub.

NDiggy's Avatar


NDiggy
05.11.2012 , 03:34 PM | #255
Would you heal and OP in tank gear? Tank an OP in healer gear? DPS an OP in level 30 greens? Why would you not wear the gear made for pvp to run WZs in? At least in PvE people have the option not to group with you, in pvp the team does not have a choice, even if they run with a pre-made of 4 people. Its just simple consideration for other people and the time and money they put into this game that they want to enjoy.
A countryman between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats. -
Benjamin Franklin

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.11.2012 , 03:39 PM | #256
Quote: Originally Posted by SneakyErvin View Post
You are really not making sense. My peak at 3006 was a peak of the skill, uneffected by anything but the buffs on me, which changes the tooltip on the spell. The 2236 or 2357 has nothing to do with it, its just 2 different calculations, one being right, the other wrong, so there is no fluctuation to talk about. Your formula is wrong, you are stuck thinking about expertise effecting bonus damage in your character pane which it doesnt, so you cant calculate the final damage/healing that way.

Its also no excuse that it can peak, its FACT because it does peak above its intended value i.e the value stated in the tooltip as the highest possible heal. You are drifting away from the topic and you sound more than mildly angry and upset.

I proved you in my example earlier, that in full pvp gear you get no expertise healing bonus while out of combat, flagged, unflagged or in WZs. Keep claiming it, it doesnt change the fact that it doesnt.

I have no clue what your max trauma heal will be. Because I dont know your max value of the spell.

spellmax*0.7 = x*1.0752 = y Or whatever your expertise was.

Read this one more time once and for all what I have said to you several times earlier and you might get what is wrong with your calculations.

Expertise works just like any other ability that buffs/debuffs final end damage/healing. [COLOR="darkred"] It works like Taunt, Deadly Throw, Trauma or any talent that increases an abilites damage by x%[COLOR]. Spells that effect and alter bonus damage in your character pane are Unnatural/Force Might. Read it over and over.

Yes those affect bonus damage, which also affects the tool tip value. Either way the point your making is that there is a difference between a player buff and expertise, and there is NO evidence that it does. In fact, my evidence and calcs point out that it is the opposite and acts exactly like a player buff. In the next set, I will make sure to pull up my player stats, so there is no question what the numbers are...

SHOWN ON ALL PICS
SKILL: DELIVERANCE
THE MIN: 3132
THE MAX: 3274
EXP= 7.52% Healing Bonus

All shown at fleet, spawns on WZ, and actually on battlegrounds in WZ.

Now please calc my max heal while trama is active and I am out of combat (since you propose exp don't factor in in this scenario)..... NVM..

Your calc is 2292. I'll beat that number by 2-7%, which would mean expertise is active ALL the time as long as your PvP flag is toggled.. Why 2-7%? Look at this picture again, and when I exceed your stated max, I will expain this one...
http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/...WTORVSJOKE.png

Also I missed the part where you "proved" expertise don't affect you out of combat? Can you rehash that please?
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
05.11.2012 , 03:41 PM | #257
Quote: Originally Posted by SneakyErvin View Post
I see some people in here that really dont understand how much of an improvement recruit gear is compared to any non-expertise gear.

One guy earlier said he had 700k left after buying everything at 50 except his speeder 3 training. And he didnt want to spend half that on a recruit set that lowered his primary stat.

This IMO shows the lack of knowledge he has when it comes to expertise vs no expertise. I dont mean to be rude, but it does.

You might think losing main stats being alot and that it will make you preform worse. And the answer to that is a big NO. Most recruit pieces will make you lose your main stat, but many pieces will increase power, surge and so on along with expertise.

Losing 150-200 of your main stat does not equal the damage benefit expertise gives you in pvp, which with a full recruit gear is 17-18% if I remember right. Then around 14-15% damage reduction aswell as 10% extra healing. There is no way that your loss of the main stat will have that impact. Also adding in power and surge you will be ahead of your fresh 50 pve gear, unless you mod it perfectly in which case you lose even more credits. The recruit gear costs what? 250k creds?
That was my post to which you are referring, and no I do not have a lack of knowledge regarding the difference between expertise and non-expertise. I was trying to make 2 points.

1. Recruit gear is useless for PVE, because ALL it has is expertise, besides that it is worse than most lvl 47-49 blue gear. Saying it adds power and surge, so does PVE gear. I know, when you mouse over a piece of gear at a vendor, it will show you all of that... Trust me, the recruit gear was inferior to what I already had.

2. I dinged 50 on Sunday, and had full BM by Thursday. People keep saying Recruit gear is not expensive. "Expensive" is a matter of opinion, and IMO 330k for armor you are only going to wear for THREE DAYS, and ONLY in PVP, is too expensive.

Vodrin's Avatar


Vodrin
05.11.2012 , 03:48 PM | #258
Quote: Originally Posted by RoninUTA View Post
It would be a stretch to say he played it "wrong", perhaps he really liked the beer in the cantina...nothing wrong with that at all. He gets to decide what is right/wrong. His credits, his toon, his accounts. Kudos to you for having so much money though. My toon is a broke drunkard.
By the same token, you can make enough credits to buy the recruit gear in 1-3 days of casual play running solo content. That fact kind of makes you a bit of a douche if you show up in warzones wearing leveling gear. It's really not asking an unreasonable thing of another player to take the time to get the recruit gear first. It's not like it takes two weeks or something, and it's how I did things with my new main.

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
05.11.2012 , 03:49 PM | #259
Quote: Originally Posted by NDiggy View Post
Would you heal and OP in tank gear? Tank an OP in healer gear? DPS an OP in level 30 greens? Why would you not wear the gear made for pvp to run WZs in? At least in PvE people have the option not to group with you, in pvp the team does not have a choice, even if they run with a pre-made of 4 people. Its just simple consideration for other people and the time and money they put into this game that they want to enjoy.
If I had to spend 300k on the healer gear, I could only wear it on that OP, and it was only going to last me 3 days? Yes.

SneakyErvin's Avatar


SneakyErvin
05.11.2012 , 04:49 PM | #260
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
Yes those affect bonus damage, which also affects the tool tip value. Either way the point your making is that there is a difference between a player buff and expertise, and there is NO evidence that it does. In fact, my evidence and calcs point out that it is the opposite and acts exactly like a player buff. In the next set, I will make sure to pull up my player stats, so there is no question what the numbers are...

SHOWN ON ALL PICS
SKILL: DELIVERANCE
THE MIN: 3132
THE MAX: 3274
EXP= 7.52% Healing Bonus

All shown at fleet, spawns on WZ, and actually on battlegrounds in WZ.

Now please calc my max heal while trama is active and I am out of combat (since you propose exp don't factor in in this scenario)..... NVM..

Your calc is 2292. I'll beat that number by 2-7%, which would mean expertise is active ALL the time as long as your PvP flag is toggled.. Why 2-7%? Look at this picture again, and when I exceed your stated max, I will expain this one...
http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/...WTORVSJOKE.png

Also I missed the part where you "proved" expertise don't affect you out of combat? Can you rehash that please?
Sorry, but you are just babbling and throwing out numbers. The link you posted states an avarage heal, between your min and max as stated on the tooltip. The tooltip doesnt change in a WZ or when you engage PvP because your damage/healing is exactly the same.

2292 would be the number during trauma effect without expertise. But aslong as the trauma effect is active I think it counts you as in PvP so you get the 7.52% bonus, not 2-7%. You either get it or not. In which case its 2463.

1. You can have two friends, player A is fighting an enemy, player B isnt.
2. You heal both of them, player A recieves a 30% debuff through trauma, you negate 7.5% of that from your expertise, but player B who wasnt in combat is healed for 100% effect not 107.5%.

I made a perfectly fine comparison for you that I did early today over a total of 75 casts.

25 flagged on fleet
25 unflagged on fleet
25 in WZ spawn area

They were all the same, they all peaked around the same value, give or take a point or two. You also said at the top of this latest post.

Quote:
Yes those affect bonus damage, which also affects the tool tip value. Either way the point your making is that there is a difference between a player buff and expertise, and there is NO evidence that it does. In fact, my evidence and calcs point out that it is the opposite and acts exactly like a player buff. In the next set, I will make sure to pull up my player stats, so there is no question what the numbers are...
Which ones effect bonus damage? All or might or what do you mean yes, they work in different ways. Might effects bonus damage and your tooltip value. The others dont. There is a big difference between might and expertise, Might states specifically that it effects ranged/melee/tech/force bonus damage/healing. Expertise has a completely different wording, just like taunt, trauma, deadly throw etc.

Flagging isnt enough to trigger expertise, learn it and stop arguing. You dont even check the posts I provide you with tests. You read what you like, just like the links to the sites you provided with the "4% difference between old and new BM expertise", when it was infact 7% units and roughly 30-33% increase.
Ahahahahah!!