Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue

funkiestj's Avatar


funkiestj
05.10.2012 , 12:21 PM | #161
I asked in another thread about combat dummies & expertise. If a PvP dummy demonstrated the importance of expertise (recruit gear) over other stats, that might make it more obvious to the skeptics.

Also, does expertise apply in dueling? If yes, you could help educate someone by doing a very controlled duel e.g. standing still and methodically taking turns. You could do one duel with the PvE gear and one with recruit and observe the difference in damage done/taken.

Can anyone confirm or refute the idea that expertise applies in duels and/or open world PvP?

Mr. Hat says "BW support is the best"!
I am a bad player, so what?

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.10.2012 , 12:23 PM | #162
Quote: Originally Posted by Xsorus View Post
You're struggling to compare yourself to someone in Recruit gear..

RECRUIT GEAR


If you only fight people in recruit gear, I want to play on your server...However using Rakata at any point in combat is bloody moronic, because the higher the PvP gears, the more it outpaces rakata.

Someone in BM or higher gear is going to hit you harder then someone in Recruit.. that is the simple fact of it.
Yes it is pretty simple, you said it... "someone in BM will hit you harder than recruit" even though the EXP percentage difference is 4%.
4 effin%, so why do BM hit SO much harder that Recruits? Because the main/secs are higher......... Main & secs are SIGNFICANTLY HIGHER on PvE gear tier for tier......... so you can outpace expertise gains.


I'm not comparing myself to someone in recruit. It is recruit to lvl 49/50 epics, BM to rakata, WH to Campaign, and everything else in the middle. How else can I explain "tier for tier"? Here I'll try again...

Should I wear Rakata or WH? WH is better in some cases, not in others (due to some secondary tradeoffs).
Should I wear Rakata or BM? Umm.... it really dont matter, they are pretty close in most cases (shown in my last post although at the recruit v. lvl49/50 level).
Should I wear Rakata or Recruit? Ummmm...... what?


Do I have to do an askmrrobot for BM V Rakata too?
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

jibboo's Avatar


jibboo
05.10.2012 , 12:23 PM | #163
These types of threads are funny.

I come into it thinking "Okay, this request isn't too unreasonable. They have gear requirements in WoW for queuing for dungeons/raids, they can pull it off in this game, especially with how easy it is to obtain recruit gear. I'd think that most people would feel the same way."

Wrong. lol.

I don't think there will ever be a single topic everyone will agree on, yet people keep arguing their points as if they'll magically make everyone see things the way they do. I guess those people just like to argue for arguement's sake.

Either way: DOWN WITH THE JERKS QUEUING WITH 0 EXPERTISE!!

stinkybird's Avatar


stinkybird
05.10.2012 , 12:32 PM | #164
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
As a side note, do you know how hard it is to die 15 times in a WZ? When I ran my alt Sorc and still thought I was on my tank so I charged into melee range of anyone I saw, I still only died 12 times. I died 15 times on a game where I was camped by the enemy at spawn in Voidstar where I pretty much died the moment I jumped down. I'm actually curious what's the record for the most number of deaths in a WZ.
don't get me wrong the guy was trying but with 10k you are 2 shots dead. the person would die and run right back into the fight and die again. it was funny to watch him do it, cause he was really trying hard for the most deaths. oh ya this was a sage with 10k. you can imagine what we were seeing.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
05.10.2012 , 12:35 PM | #165
Quote: Originally Posted by Krayshawn View Post
You forgot RATING, that is a HUGE part of disparity between gear. Also, BM/WH provides a SET BONUS recruit does not. Also, Expertise has a very Different Hard/soft cap then most other stats (that secret formula you were babbling about is in front of you nose).
edit: oh and Pre 1.2 you werent sitting at 700 EXP
2 rating points per piece means exactly what? MAX 32 armor rating? 2400 or 2432.... Real game changing there...
Yes, I was not at 700.... BY CHOICE!!!!! Basically after 1.2, I swapped out my mods and enhan for the PvP equiv. It was free +50 EXP per piece for raiders and I didn't nerf ANYTHING..... And guess what.... I bought 7 pairs on BM gloves. Can you explain why I did that?
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

SneakyErvin's Avatar


SneakyErvin
05.10.2012 , 12:36 PM | #166
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
380HP on a crit attack????? Makes a huge difference..... ONCE AGAIN... NUMBERS OUT OF UR AZZ!!! AND THIS IS A BEST CASE SCENARIO. Exactly how much crit and end did you give up to get those numbers?




No.. You are missing it. Georg is the Lead on this game, but I HIGHLY doubt he has a clear understanding of how the mathematics impact this game. I saw what he said... I laughed at it.Yeah, maybe there is some great magical formula that works in the background that gives expertise an advantage, but coming from a player that has almost EVERY tier of PvP & PvE equipment, expertise NOW makes it on par with PvE.

You don't understand exponential decay. The "BUFF" was slightly changing a multiplier to the log function and adding EXP to the mod and enh slots on BM and higher/adding more EXP to Cent gear(called recruit now), BUT EXPONENTIAL DECAY IS STILL THERE POST 1.2. The more you stack the less it benefits (i.e. In 1.2, 450EXP= 10%, but 900EXP= 18% (instead of 20%; for example))

Here are the charts and equations and are damn close to universally accepted by the community.
http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/e...-of-champions/
You need to understand damage is governed by:
1. BW Controlled Base Damage.
2. Player Controlled Bonus Damage (EXPERTISE ONLY AFFECTS THIS).
More questions:
Q: Since the EXP difference between Recruit and BM is small, why is it such a noticeable difference when you are in a WZ?
A: Better main/sec stats (I.E. in the GRAND scheme of things main/sec stats DO matter in PvP).

Q: Does -6MAIN = +69EXP(1.71%)
A: Questionable at best... and this is a conservative number.

Q: What is the full set trade off from Recruit gear to PvE L49/50 epics?
A:
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...a-5fb24469272d

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...1-fdaccb8effa2

Here is a side by side to make it easier…
http://s1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/
Notice….18.2% added to a 519 Damage Bonus= 614HP(less than 100HP difference), but I have a 1620HP advantage. You are negating 15% of my damage of 490.7…. Again, less than a 100HP difference. Please notice my 12%(!) advantage in surge. On a crit attack, I just outpaced your vaunted mitigation. AND this comparison assumes I don’t use equal tiered relics on the PvE toon(Champ/Columi are really on the same tier). I have looked at the equations over, and over, and over again even IF expertise affected tool tip ratings (which I have never been able to prove mathematically), we still are talking about drops in the bucket on a tier to tier basis. Overall the change in expertise was to boost a VERY deflated PvP stat to begin with. I screamed to the high heavens that expertise need to be buff because of the above reasons and people said I was crazy. Then BW buffed it. So……… the math I used, in conjunction with my in game observations (on self healing in open world PvP!), and BW actions in 1.2 has shown me that I was right:

If a Rakata player is losing to you in recruit gear, then they blow and you are SUPA LEET... Plain and simple. Do you have Rakata pieces? I STILL would guess the answer in no....... Conversely, I have 6 Rakata pieces, all the BM pieces, 3WH, and a shiz ton of columi/champ/cent stuff. Hell, I even bought a freaking RECRUIT implant last night just to give you REAL numbers on the trade off with my crit crafted implant (all on my previous post). Tried it all in PVP; pre and post 1.2. I sit at ~700EXP. I do just fine and laugh at overpowered marauders in the recruit gear(13k) while I am spiking them down in my "weak" PvE gear and underpowered class(at 18K HP). I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink...
Where do you get the idea that expertise only effects bonus damage? It is stated nowhere. It buffs damage done while in a pvp situation, it doesnt increase your damage bonus stat. Same with the damage reduction, its not something that effects your bonus damage, it effects total damage.

Even in the graph they clearly state expertise is the way to go after 1.2, because it has that much of an impact. Pre 1.2 is a whole different story.

But gaining a flat 18% bonus to your damage dealt is alot, just like take x% less damage aswell.
Ahahahahah!!

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.10.2012 , 12:37 PM | #167
Quote: Originally Posted by stinkybird View Post
don't get me wrong the guy was trying but with 10k you are 2 shots dead. the person would die and run right back into the fight and die again. it was funny to watch him do it, cause he was really trying hard for the most deaths. oh ya this was a sage with 10k. you can imagine what we were seeing.
Yeah, I was just pointing out you got to be very determined to die 15 times. Just being bad won't get you 15 deaths.

Krayshawn's Avatar


Krayshawn
05.10.2012 , 12:37 PM | #168
Quote: Originally Posted by stinkybird View Post
don't get me wrong the guy was trying but with 10k you are 2 shots dead. the person would die and run right back into the fight and die again. it was funny to watch him do it, cause he was really trying hard for the most deaths. oh ya this was a sage with 10k. you can imagine what we were seeing.
This reminds me of when i was on my alt, there was a level 11 sage who kept charging my 41 jug, the whole game he came after me (it was VS, pretty long game). He tried, and failed terribly, i never saw him use one force attack, all saber... lol.
The Krayshawn Legacy:
Krayshawn - Vanguard El'Diablo - 29/12/0 Jug
Mufasa, GM : <Hakuna Matata> - Jedi Covenant

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
05.10.2012 , 12:45 PM | #169
Quote: Originally Posted by funkiestj View Post
I asked in another thread about combat dummies & expertise. If a PvP dummy demonstrated the importance of expertise (recruit gear) over other stats, that might make it more obvious to the skeptics.

Also, does expertise apply in dueling? If yes, you could help educate someone by doing a very controlled duel e.g. standing still and methodically taking turns. You could do one duel with the PvE gear and one with recruit and observe the difference in damage done/taken.

Can anyone confirm or refute the idea that expertise applies in duels and/or open world PvP?
Expertise says increases damage done to players and I'm not sure why we have a reason to believe that won't affect duels/open world PvP. I mean, anything's possible, but there's just no reason to believe otherwise without proof on the contrary.

The PvP dummy does not appear to actually take Expertise into account. On my WH characer with 1260 Expertise, I use FL and get that it does like 20% less damage than its tooltip with. However, I switch to an alt and with 0 Expertise and it still looks like I do 20% less damage than tooltip on the same dummy. i can't quite prove it yet because my alt's attack have a range of damage so I haven't worked out all the ranges, but it should be pretty trivial for anyone with a SI alt with 0 expertise to verify.

joeypesci's Avatar


joeypesci
05.10.2012 , 12:49 PM | #170
Quote: Originally Posted by Foxrynn View Post
It's also disrespectful to think that people who don't buy the recruit gear are actually trying to hurt their teammates... I'm not going to lie, when I hit 50 I had barely 80k left after buying my skills for my rotation... Recruit gear is pretty expensive for a freshly hit 50. And keep in mind even if you waited 30 minutes to an hour to days, that person has waited JUST AS LONG AS YOU, and not only that, you were in the exact same boat as he or she was.
Agreed. This thread is one of the reasons I hate PvP, all the elitist rubbish.