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Denova/EC Stormcaller & Firebrand Overtuned 16m Hard?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Denova/EC Stormcaller & Firebrand Overtuned 16m Hard?

pure_laced's Avatar


pure_laced
05.09.2012 , 01:16 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Semitote View Post
Okay, so you're taunting before incinerate, I was thinking a DPS would be trying to hold it for the entire duration of the debuff on a tank... Makes a little bit more sense now..

I don't know why DD soakers would be standing between Stormcaller and Firebrand though.. Always leap when I see Incinerate Armor, I don't understand how I could ever leap early.. I don't even target the other tank until I see Incinerate start casting.

But yeah I can see how it would work the other way just fine as well. So it really doesn't matter which way you do it unless you're hitting the enrage because you have a third tank - but with a DPS taunting it, you don't have to worry about losing DPS. Our guild has 0 DPS with a taunt button though. All of our DPS are sorcs, mercs, marauders, snipers, and the occasional operative. So I guess we have to do the tank swap no matter what.
DD soakers stand on the left side of Stormcaller as you come in the door. DD casting, they move in front of the tank. DD goes off, they move back. If the Firebrand tank leaps as soon as he sees Incinerate casting, and then taunts before he is in position, he could have Stormcaller frontal cone the raid, causing the 2 with DD to be 1 shot. It has happened, because the timing isn't perfect.

It is safer to do the DPS taunt thing, or bring a 3rd tank. The enrage timer is no big deal if you have competent dps. We 3 tanked HM last week with 2 trial tanks and myself, and several other trials in Columi/Rakata mix and still beat the enrage timer by about a minute.
Cali Killed Nox
Genshen 50: Powertech | Guardian | Assassin | Sniper | Sage
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xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
05.09.2012 , 08:33 PM | #12
One could argue that every fight in 16 man is easier with 3 tanks, if you have the spare DPS. It's almost like they intended all the fights to work with 3 tanks.

However, we only use 2 for all the fights, it encourages better performance and holds to a higher standard while if executed makes the fights shorter and arguably easier.
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
#4 World | #2 US | EC16 HM

passivemenis's Avatar


passivemenis
05.10.2012 , 04:06 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by xenofire View Post
One could argue that every fight in 16 man is easier with 3 tanks, if you have the spare DPS. It's almost like they intended all the fights to work with 3 tanks.

However, we only use 2 for all the fights, it encourages better performance and holds to a higher standard while if executed makes the fights shorter and arguably easier.
Absolutely this QFT
SpacePotato - Working As Intended

Shinaa's Avatar


Shinaa
05.10.2012 , 06:21 AM | #14
If a tank refuses to switch for a mechanic that is intended to make them switch, I don't know why you are using this tank anyway. This is like: Boss throws circles at dps, but dps says: I WONT MOVE! I can do more dps while standing.
Yes you can "cheese" this mechanic with a off taunt/3rd tank, but this is not how it is designed, why do you try find a way around some lazy player? Ah I understand, the difficulty of 16 man, the one thing xenofire is so proud of.

Bubblepwened's Avatar


Bubblepwened
06.17.2012 , 11:15 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by pure_laced View Post
DD soakers stand on the left side of Stormcaller as you come in the door. DD casting, they move in front of the tank. DD goes off, they move back. If the Firebrand tank leaps as soon as he sees Incinerate casting, and then taunts before he is in position, he could have Stormcaller frontal cone the raid, causing the 2 with DD to be 1 shot. It has happened, because the timing isn't perfect.

It is safer to do the DPS taunt thing, or bring a 3rd tank. The enrage timer is no big deal if you have competent dps. We 3 tanked HM last week with 2 trial tanks and myself, and several other trials in Columi/Rakata mix and still beat the enrage timer by about a minute.

I think it is a lot easier to have the tank tanking stormcaller move the tanks head towards the 2 ppl soaking DD to give it to them then swing it back away after they get it .
Not only does it decrease the downtime of the soakers by not having to move it also leaves 1 person ( the tank ) in charge of making sure this goes off smoothly.

Raque's Avatar


Raque
06.19.2012 , 12:56 PM | #16
How much DPS are your DPSers doing? I am not talking about what they say they are but what do the logs show? I see so many numbers posted around that are really unrealistic or unnecessary that they are just complete lies.

We do that fight with 2 tanks, 4 healers, and 10 dps (although often 1 of those DPSers is simply a tank in DPS gear). Running those numbers your 10 DPSers need to average ~1,000 DPS to beat enrage on 16 man HM (do the calculations yourself if you do not believe me). The actual amount of DPS is really not that hard on 16 man HM and is substantially harder on 8 man HM.

The test is to make sure you only get 1 DD per phase. The phase length is boss health based and not timed so if you have the DPS to only get 1 DD, which is time based on how often its cast, per phase then the fight gets substantially easier. If you have the DPS for 1 DD for the phase then you will be able to kill the adds fast enough and kill the bosses before the enrage (just remember that phase transitions happen at boss health levels so if you kill one before the other you need to live through another phase transition; killing them both at the same time makes it much easier).

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
06.19.2012 , 01:28 PM | #17
i tank this fight on the reg and there is no need for a tank swap or 3 tanks.. simply have a dps with a taunt, taunt when DD is cast(make sure the storm caller tank calls it out) have the dps move to the spot where the tank is and when u see the IA cast start have the tank taunt back and once IA is cast the dps can move back where we was.. and a bit of advice id put 2 operative healers on the ground on firebrand side much more easier for them to move and heal and it also keeps all but that one dps whos taunting going all out... it sounds as if ur not killing the adds quick enough and getting back on the tanks fast enough.... advice replace nub dps

Kaisies's Avatar


Kaisies
06.20.2012 , 10:49 AM | #18
(i play a jugg tank in one of the top raiding guilds on pot5)

As others have said, if your tank refuses to swap, this is a problem. Yes, on this fight you can have a dps fill the third tank role, but minefield will be difficult without 3 tanks (dps on probe must be all out, its simply impossible to hold aggro as a tank on probe, so a two tank rotation is idea with 3rd controlling puzzle so your dps doesn't pull aggro and die)

Also, kephess will be impossible, and I don't mean unlikely, I mean full on impossible with 2 tanks. Period. The fight mechanics require 3. All 3 of our tanks are full campaign w/augs and its still a reasonable challenge (communication and a good rotation of who's next is paramount) to complete the sub 60 kephess fight. Have a talk with your tank, if you cannot change his mind, you will never, ever complete denova.

pure_laced's Avatar


pure_laced
06.20.2012 , 11:23 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaisies View Post
(i play a jugg tank in one of the top raiding guilds on pot5)

As others have said, if your tank refuses to swap, this is a problem. Yes, on this fight you can have a dps fill the third tank role, but minefield will be difficult without 3 tanks (dps on probe must be all out, its simply impossible to hold aggro as a tank on probe, so a two tank rotation is idea with 3rd controlling puzzle so your dps doesn't pull aggro and die)

Also, kephess will be impossible, and I don't mean unlikely, I mean full on impossible with 2 tanks. Period. The fight mechanics require 3. All 3 of our tanks are full campaign w/augs and its still a reasonable challenge (communication and a good rotation of who's next is paramount) to complete the sub 60 kephess fight. Have a talk with your tank, if you cannot change his mind, you will never, ever complete denova.
Kephess can be done with 2 tanks, we have done it. It is a pain and just easier with 3.
Cali Killed Nox
Genshen 50: Powertech | Guardian | Assassin | Sniper | Sage
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Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
06.20.2012 , 12:04 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaisies View Post
(i play a jugg tank in one of the top raiding guilds on pot5)

As others have said, if your tank refuses to swap, this is a problem. Yes, on this fight you can have a dps fill the third tank role, but minefield will be difficult without 3 tanks (dps on probe must be all out, its simply impossible to hold aggro as a tank on probe, so a two tank rotation is idea with 3rd controlling puzzle so your dps doesn't pull aggro and die)

Also, kephess will be impossible, and I don't mean unlikely, I mean full on impossible with 2 tanks. Period. The fight mechanics require 3. All 3 of our tanks are full campaign w/augs and its still a reasonable challenge (communication and a good rotation of who's next is paramount) to complete the sub 60 kephess fight. Have a talk with your tank, if you cannot change his mind, you will never, ever complete denova.
You don't need two tanks for the mine field. At all. With a proper maximum threat rotation and intelligent use of taunts it can be easily done with one, even if the DPS are going all out.
Elidibs Draconis, Kinetic Shadow
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