Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Quest: The Plitics of Dissent (spoiler?)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Quest: The Plitics of Dissent (spoiler?)

TurkeyDinner's Avatar


TurkeyDinner
01.07.2012 , 04:36 PM | #11
Its important to note that in the mission the Senator was not simply voicing an opinion rather he was attempting to secretly form a coupe within the senate to enact policy that works against the will of the people and would ultimately lead the republic into subjugation to the empire.

Defending such actions in the name of "Respecting the Democratic Process" is a farce and a misunderstanding of Democracy.

The fundamental basis of a Democratic society is that officials are elected to Do the will of THE PEOPLE. The people are not Subjects of the government. The people do not serve the Government. The Government is to serve the people and do the will of the people.

In the real world if an elected official Fails to perform the will of the people they are voted out of office and replaced through the Electoral Process. If an elected official is found to be working Against the will of the people and Against the principles of the society they have been elected to represent and/or working in their own self interest; they are Impeached and Immediately Removed from office. (sic. Rob Blagoyavich [SP?])

Quote: Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is not possible for all people to know what misdeeds their government is perpetrating behind closed doors, secrets, and lies. But if the people that do know whats going on do nothing to stop it or expose it then they bare as much responsibility for the loss of their freedom as the corrupt politicians that sold their freedom to tyrants.

When a government fails to do the will of the people and/or works in direct opposition to it; It is the Duty of the people to rise up expose the corruption and affect change. Not always necessarily through "The blood of Patriots and Tyrants" if that can be avoided, but a people must be ready and willing to do what it takes to expose corruption, Even if that means Intercepting Documents by legally questionable means.

In Reality The Light Side Option advocates a peoples subjugation to the government and accepting Tyranny in the name of adherence to law.

ThylinCreno's Avatar


ThylinCreno
01.07.2012 , 09:48 PM | #12
This seems backwards to me, but I can see the point... maybe. Of saying its darkside to get rid of the corruption by not using the democratic process. But I thought the quest was just about getting evidence, then letting the democratic process do its thing. Even still, if you do the light side option, you can tell the jedi does it grudgingly which is good. But then still lies to the original contact. most other missions let you tell the truth in these situations. This would have been a good start for a quest chain, where maybe you go back and say something like, I agree with you but it we need to do it thru the proper channels. And who knows, maybe what was the original intention and it never got continued? I would be ok with my character possibly doing lightside if he could tell the original contact the truth. I dunno, its darkside to not steal evidence of wrong doing by the senator but its ok to lie to your original contact?

I ended up just resetting and abandoning it for now lol.

TurkeyDinner's Avatar


TurkeyDinner
01.07.2012 , 10:24 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by ThylinCreno View Post
I ended up just resetting and abandoning it for now lol.
Same here.

Whats really annoying is that for smugglers, choosing the lightside option causes you to lose 30 affection with Corso Riggs.

Either way you chose you are getting punished.

If you do the morally correct thing and expose parvels corruption you get dark side faction but gain affection from Corso,

If you choose the option that gives you light side faction despite it being morrally objecionable you loose affection with corso.

Its a catch 22.

And dont say to just dismiss corso, you shouldnt have to.

JawaJedi's Avatar


JawaJedi
01.07.2012 , 10:32 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by TurkeyDinner View Post
Same here.

Whats really annoying is that for smugglers, choosing the lightside option causes you to lose 30 affection with Corso Riggs.

Either way you chose you are getting punished.

If you do the morally correct thing and expose parvels corruption you get dark side faction but gain affection from Corso,

If you choose the option that gives you light side faction despite it being morrally objecionable you loose affection with corso.

Its a catch 22.

And dont say to just dismiss corso, you shouldnt have to.
Its not a catch 22, BioWare flat out told you that they don't give a damn about lightside/darkside with companions. While some will naturally line up in certain ways, its NOT the way you are supposed to determine whether something will gain influence or lose influence. Look at the Codex to determine likes/dislikes if you have to remind yourself.
And suppose your trying to be a darkside smuggler with Corso as your main companion? Not so Catch 22 there, is it?
Quote: Originally Posted by Saevio View Post
I haven't understood anything anyone has said in this thread so far. That's common on these forums though.

TurkeyDinner's Avatar


TurkeyDinner
01.07.2012 , 10:58 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by JawaJedi View Post
Its not a catch 22, BioWare flat out told you that they don't give a damn about lightside/darkside with companions. While some will naturally line up in certain ways, its NOT the way you are supposed to determine whether something will gain influence or lose influence. Look at the Codex to determine likes/dislikes if you have to remind yourself.
And suppose your trying to be a darkside smuggler with Corso as your main companion? Not so Catch 22 there, is it?
I didn't say that the Force Attenuation of the options are what affect Corso's affection. On this mission Corso's affection gain or loss has to do with you actions regarding the Empire not whether or not your choice was light side or dark side.

You lose affection by selecting the lightside option not because it is light side but because your action promotes collaboration with the empire,

Choosing to expose the senator causes gain because your action opposes collaboration with the empire.

For a person playing a Smuggler with a moral compass and That cares about their standing with Corso it is a catch 22, you have to either accept dark side Force Attenuation points, or accept a loss of affection with Corso.

The choice may have absolutely no bearing on any other class' companions, i was speaking Strictly about my specific class and companion.

JawaJedi's Avatar


JawaJedi
01.08.2012 , 12:32 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TurkeyDinner View Post
I didn't say that the Force Attenuation of the options are what affect Corso's affection. On this mission Corso's affection gain or loss has to do with you actions regarding the Empire not whether or not your choice was light side or dark side.

You lose affection by selecting the lightside option not because it is light side but because your action promotes collaboration with the empire,

Choosing to expose the senator causes gain because your action opposes collaboration with the empire.

For a person playing a Smuggler with a moral compass and That cares about their standing with Corso it is a catch 22, you have to either accept dark side Force Attenuation points, or accept a loss of affection with Corso.

The choice may have absolutely no bearing on any other class' companions, i was speaking Strictly about my specific class and companion.
Except its not a catch 22. Your trying to complete two unrelated objectives, which, in this case, is impossible. If the objectives were related (say, Corso only like lightside options except this one case) it would be a Catch 22. However because alignment and affection are independent, this a perfectly fair outcome. Your arguement is personal, and it assumes that a smuggler with a moral compass with an affection gain with Corso is more valuable than a darkside smuggler with an affection gain with Corso-this is not true.

Also, its completely reasonable for affection gains/losses to be made in the same choice for lightside/darkside-those are supposed to be the important ones.
Quote: Originally Posted by Saevio View Post
I haven't understood anything anyone has said in this thread so far. That's common on these forums though.

Bgiffo's Avatar


Bgiffo
01.08.2012 , 02:49 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by TurkeyDinner View Post
Its important to note that in the mission the Senator was not simply voicing an opinion rather he was attempting to secretly form a coupe...
I'm more inclined to believed that we had an unreliable narrator (or in this case, quest giver). Realistically, the senator was serving the general interest of his district, which happened to have views more aligned with peace with the Empire.

TurkeyDinner's Avatar


TurkeyDinner
01.08.2012 , 03:35 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by JawaJedi View Post
Except its not a catch 22. Your trying to complete two unrelated objectives, which, in this case, is impossible. If the objectives were related (say, Corso only like lightside options except this one case) it would be a Catch 22. However because alignment and affection are independent, this a perfectly fair outcome. Your arguement is personal, and it assumes that a smuggler with a moral compass with an affection gain with Corso is more valuable than a darkside smuggler with an affection gain with Corso-this is not true.

Also, its completely reasonable for affection gains/losses to be made in the same choice for lightside/darkside-those are supposed to be the important ones.
Your argument is invalid. It ignores the context of the post and assumes that i'm speaking for anyone other then myself. Also the way i read your post, it seems you are assuming that Gaining Companion affection and gaining light side standing are objectives to be met. This is incorrect; The objective is simply to complete the mission. Gaining or loosing standing in the force and with the companions are just outcomes of the decisions made while achieving that objective.

I was responding to a post questioning not stealing the papers on the basis of lawful morality only to deceive the quest giver upon completion of the quest.

The context is therefore based on a player who is taking morality into consideration when making in game decisions (Also i had previously posited that the morally correct choice is to expose corruption).

The ONLY Thing my post assumes is that a player playing a morally conscious character would view gaining Dark side points as undesirable, and that regardless of faction, loosing companion loyalty is undesirable.

A Catch 22 is a Situation where any action taken results in an undesirable outcome. In the context of my post this mission IS a Catch 22. If a Morally Conscious Smuggler chooses based on morality he receives dark side points. If he decides to go against his morality so he can avoid dark side points he looses [a comparably significant amount] loyalty from Corso. Regardless of which option he chooses there is an undesirable outcome.

TurkeyDinner's Avatar


TurkeyDinner
01.08.2012 , 03:43 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Bgiffo View Post
I'm more inclined to believed that we had an unreliable narrator (or in this case, quest giver). Realistically, the senator was serving the general interest of his district, which happened to have views more aligned with peace with the Empire.
It would be convenient wouldn't it. But the senate aids arguments do not support this possibility. It instead defends the senators right to work towards the goal the quest giver accused him of.

Then theres the whole loosing Corso Loyalty thing...

Ranadiel_Marius's Avatar


Ranadiel_Marius
01.08.2012 , 06:40 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by TurkeyDinner View Post
For a person playing a Smuggler with a moral compass and That cares about their standing with Corso it is a catch 22, you have to either accept dark side Force Attenuation points, or accept a loss of affection with Corso.
.....Or you just dismiss him for the conversation and take no affection loss.