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Stormcaller Bug or Mechanic?


jtsd's Avatar


jtsd
05.07.2012 , 06:52 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Dragonbgone View Post
Wait, the distance you're standing relative to the target effects threat? Could you explain this please? I didn't know of this mechanic.
Yeah. From what I've read on mmo-mechanics.

To "pull aggro" from the bosses current target:

Inside melee range you need to have a total threat greater than 110% of the bosses current target.
Outside melee range you need to have a total threat greater than 130% of the bosses current target.

However, as the game sees it, the bosses "melee" range is often (nearly always?) smaller than the hit box. So melee players standing outside of the bosses "melee" range but still inside his hit box would also require a total threat greater than 130% of the current bosses target to pull aggro.

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...16142#pid16142



There is also information that the way the taunt mechanic works is directly related to this:

If the current highest threat holder is inside melee range, taunting will instantly set your threat to 110% of theirs (the amount required to take aggro at that distance).
If the current highest threat holder is outside melee range, taunting will instantly set your threat to 130% of theirs (the amount required to take aggro at that distance).

This is even the case if the person taunting is the current highest threat holder. So if a tank has the highest threat of 10,000, and taunts inside "melee" range, their threat will instantly become 11,000. If they taunt outside "melee" range, their threat becomes 13,000.

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...17246#pid17246


In short, never stack on the boss unless a mechanic specifically requires it. Not even tanks.

Aritok's Avatar


Aritok
05.07.2012 , 07:17 AM | #12
We are currently as well on HM Storm/Fire and had the same problem. Our DPS were commando and sage. And everytime Stormcaller was doing the first double destruction blast, the sage got agro short after and both DPS were instant killed. We got it under control with guard on the sage. Than the commando got agro somehow (never ever happend). Now the DPS use the agro reducer when Stormcaller start the double destruction spell. And after this it was no problem anymore. It always only happend on the first time each try. Might because the tank has not enough threat at this time.
Eighter lower the DPS untill the tank got his second taunt in, or reduce the agro with the agro debuff.


The Electric Discharge is not the lightning probe that is on the ground. It is the DD fire from Stormcaller and doing alot damage while double destruction is up (around 20-25k).

Dragonbgone's Avatar


Dragonbgone
05.07.2012 , 01:18 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by jtsd View Post
Yeah. From what I've read on mmo-mechanics.

To "pull aggro" from the bosses current target:

Inside melee range you need to have a total threat greater than 110% of the bosses current target.
Outside melee range you need to have a total threat greater than 130% of the bosses current target.

However, as the game sees it, the bosses "melee" range is often (nearly always?) smaller than the hit box. So melee players standing outside of the bosses "melee" range but still inside his hit box would also require a total threat greater than 130% of the current bosses target to pull aggro.

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...16142#pid16142



There is also information that the way the taunt mechanic works is directly related to this:

If the current highest threat holder is inside melee range, taunting will instantly set your threat to 110% of theirs (the amount required to take aggro at that distance).
If the current highest threat holder is outside melee range, taunting will instantly set your threat to 130% of theirs (the amount required to take aggro at that distance).

This is even the case if the person taunting is the current highest threat holder. So if a tank has the highest threat of 10,000, and taunts inside "melee" range, their threat will instantly become 11,000. If they taunt outside "melee" range, their threat becomes 13,000.

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...17246#pid17246


In short, never stack on the boss unless a mechanic specifically requires it. Not even tanks.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! Awesome! After I commented on that I went to sithwarrior.com and read up on it. I read the whole thing but was still a little confused on that part. Thank you so much for clarifying. Knowing this mechanic will make fights much, much easier. Once again, thank you.
. : Messores Republicae : .
Reapers of the Republic

KarethRiker's Avatar


KarethRiker
05.08.2012 , 08:12 AM | #14
On HM last night this was a serious problem for us but we got better over time. We didn't try standing further from the tank's threat box but gave our tank a three count to build threat, better timed our taunts and used aggro drops after DD. it's very unforgiven, but I expect that with the game' hardest content.

ZenoDnB's Avatar


ZenoDnB
05.08.2012 , 10:58 AM | #15
Our guild was having a similar problem when doing HM EC this past Sunday - when DD goes off, SC immediately targets the dps, resulting in an instant-kill. I imagine there is some type of bug occurring here, similar to that of Soa's aggro bug (where he would lose aggro after casting Mind Trap).

Lots of awesome posts in here though - hoping that this will help us progress on EC on our next attempt Thanks for that info about the range aggro, had no idea.

XavinNydek's Avatar


XavinNydek
05.08.2012 , 02:38 PM | #16
Quote:
This is even the case if the person taunting is the current highest threat holder. So if a tank has the highest threat of 10,000, and taunts inside "melee" range, their threat will instantly become 11,000. If they taunt outside "melee" range, their threat becomes 13,000.
Also keep in mind, it looks like the threat boost probably only happens with the single target taunts, not the AoE ones, so the tanks should always use their single target taunt for bosses and swaps.

Another consequence of the taunt mechanics is that the best time for DPS that grabs aggro to dump threat is right after the tank taunts back, not before. That 25% dump isn't going to make the boss switch to someone else, but it will help after the tank's threat leapfrogs yours.

MrMichael's Avatar


MrMichael
05.10.2012 , 12:49 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by TankStig View Post
We had this happen to us what we found is that we need to slow our damage one of the tanks is hiting 80% when stormcaller is casting DD, as a result the probe kitting phase is starting while DD is being cast hence the reason why the probe is landing on the tank tanking stormcrawler. When we slowed our DPS at 85% it seemed to fix the problem.
Appearantly we're talking about two different bugs, as I am quoting this guy from page one. This is the problem my guild was having lastnight. Stormcaller would get off a second DD just around the same time they would enter phase 2 and be needing to run for the shield. The result would be, Stormcaller would continue to cast DD, I (being the tank) would position myself behind the DD soakers but a lightning probe would drop on me at the same time. I would still be standing on stormcaller, and we would not have officially entered the kiting phase aka shielding phase, as the bosses hadn't channeled defensive measures, and the shields didn't drop, but that ONE lightning pole WOULD drop right on top of me, which sadly would also be right on top of the 2 DD soakers, and they would die right away. I am sure it is a timing thing in this case, and our DPS either needs to slow down or speed up to get the DD phase casted and over with BEFORE officially entering the defensive measures phase.

NickBlane's Avatar


NickBlane
05.10.2012 , 03:42 AM | #18
I have had this problem when tanking SC

Using AOE taunt everytime during the casting of DD solved it for me.

jtsd's Avatar


jtsd
05.15.2012 , 05:23 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Dragonbgone View Post
THANK YOU SO MUCH! Awesome! After I commented on that I went to sithwarrior.com and read up on it. I read the whole thing but was still a little confused on that part. Thank you so much for clarifying. Knowing this mechanic will make fights much, much easier. Once again, thank you.
NP. Some further testing on the Operations Training Dummy suggests it's "melee" range threat threshold is 2.75 meters while it's hit box is 4.0 meters.

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...21688#pid21688

It is not clear at this point whether 2.75 meters is a set "melee" range for all bosses in the game mechanics, but it's a place to start for further testing.

Drakalu's Avatar


Drakalu
05.15.2012 , 09:46 AM | #20
It's probably more of a mechanic. Most of the time we see this problem when party members haven't been to this fight before and occasionally pull aggro during the first 10 seconds of the fight and wipe the operation.

For the first 10-15 seconds DPS needs to give the tanks a chance to build some aggro on the bosses. They don't have to hold DPS but at least not start with their heavy damage abilities. You can always try holding dps for a few seconds, though unless you are running story mode I would not recommend it. Another method would be to have the tanks run in on a speeder while everyone else runs on foot. They can still use insta ranged abilities for the few seconds it takes to reach the bosses but the heavy threat attacks won't pull aggro early.

Regardless of how you decide to manage it, Once you hit the 15 second mark then DPS can go all out with little fear of accidentally pulling aggro.