Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Ship Droid Crit Chance Broken?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Ship Droid Crit Chance Broken?

RichyYoung's Avatar


RichyYoung
05.07.2012 , 02:23 AM | #21
Ship droid was a nice idea but as with all they seem to stop short before the finish line, ive brought the upgrade (what little choice there was ie non for artifice) Truth is hes pretty pointless with out the ability to send out all 5 companions. They said in developer questions that they dont want people to find them selfs with all compaions out doing missions so they have a spare for doing dailys etc.. which is such a flawed copy and past lazy answer from about DEC!! What about when im lvling and im trying to get crafting up to 400 and i only have 1 companion or 3 companions.. Theres a million times im having to do lvling with no companions becuase hes off doing a mission, if you need him you dont send him off simple, thats no reason to stop us using all 5... Ie if i log off ill send as many out as i can if im doing lvling or dailys ill keep my healer with me. Like i say its a crappy copie pasted lazy answer in last weeks dev questions.

As a result i dont really use him that much even though i brought the add on for crap loads of credits and the droid i never use in my ship beucase its miles away. Over all im glad we can add affection to him but over all 1.2 was so lacking on so many levels, they just need to take this further.

Mythbusting's Avatar


Mythbusting
05.07.2012 , 10:04 AM | #22
As noted by Heriana, this isn't unlikely. You'd have a 5% chance to crit 1 out of 21 objects.

To put it another way, suppose that 100k of us went out to craft a 21 items. Of that group, ~1k wouldn't see a crit, and around 5k would only see one crit. If you assume that folks post bad results to the forums more often than good news, this makes for a fairly large number of "X is broken" posts on the crew skills forums.

Quote: Originally Posted by Saeria View Post
I thought about this and you may have a valid point. Specifically, we need to test if the droid is getting the +5% crit rate.

There is a way to test it though. Is to just mass craft level 1 items. And I don't mean a handful, I mean at least a 100-200 and look to see how close we get to our theoretical 20%-25%. Would love for someone with 0-affection droid to test it and also someone with a 10,000 affection droid.
Unfortunately, accurately capturing the influence of small effects with statistics isn't that easy. Assuming you're comparing a baseline 15% chance to crit to a 20% chance with the +5 crit bonus, after crafting 200 items with the droid, you'd have a ~25% chance of seeing a bonus that was statistically significant. Even worse: you'd have a 7% chance of seeing a crit rate worse than that without the bonus. (It'd take about 1500 items to get a decent sample size... which even with grade 1 items is about 25 hours of continuous crafting. I did that once, and promised myself never again.)

mrfoughtforever's Avatar


mrfoughtforever
05.07.2012 , 10:11 AM | #23
No amount of testing from players is going to prove anything. If you think there's a problem, report it and let the programmers look into it.

feday's Avatar


feday
05.08.2012 , 03:38 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Mythbusting View Post
As noted by Heriana, this isn't unlikely. You'd have a 5% chance to crit 1 out of 21 objects.

To put it another way, suppose that 100k of us went out to craft a 21 items. Of that group, ~1k wouldn't see a crit, and around 5k would only see one crit. If you assume that folks post bad results to the forums more often than good news, this makes for a fairly large number of "X is broken" posts on the crew skills forums.
What sort of logic is that...? Yes maybe 1k would see no crit, and 5k would see one crit... What about the other 94k people in your imaginary test pool? Exactly, they would see more then one crit. So essentially this reads to me as "there is a 95% chance that you will get one or more crits when crafting 21 items at a "crit chance" of 20%...

IHate's Avatar


IHate
05.08.2012 , 09:38 AM | #25
I hate to say it, because I bought all the different crafting units and I think they are totally useless at that percentage of success. I can randomly craft wtih all the companions I have (of which maybe none have crit chance to what I am crafting) and have a better success rate than using the droid with the new crafting crit module installed.
My advice so far is don't waste your cash on them...buy materials.
It's another money sink that the bio boys are laughing at us about.

NinjaMuffin's Avatar


NinjaMuffin
05.10.2012 , 09:35 AM | #26
all this math is making my head hurt

Zhiroc's Avatar


Zhiroc
05.11.2012 , 01:08 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by feday View Post
I can also confirm this for armstech (somewhat). Maxed affection on my droid with an armstech sensor thing. Crafted 15 custom built sniper rifles, 0 crits... Very unlikely indeed.

Didn't submit a bug since I have no faith in the system. This should be trivial for bioware to test, all they need to do is generate a char with said skills and a boatload of mats, and try this out in-game. Then either tell us it's working on the forum or add this to the list of known issues.

/sigh
It depends what you call "very unlikely". The armstech bonus you get from the droid is only 2%, not 5% like cybertech. So, presuming the base of 10 + 5 + 2, the probability of failing 15 times in a row is 6%. In other words, roll a D20. Did it come up 1? You lose... (Actually, you have a slightly lower chance of rolling that one than you have at failing 15 times).

I wrote a simulator for RE chances. Would it surprise you that if you roll a million times at 20% chance to succeed, that you are almost guaranteed to have a string of 50 failures or more in a row at least once? But it's true.

Rischardo's Avatar


Rischardo
06.25.2012 , 01:58 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Saeria View Post
I thought about this and you may have a valid point. Specifically, we need to test if the droid is getting the +5% crit rate.

There is a way to test it though. Is to just mass craft level 1 items. And I don't mean a handful, I mean at least a 100-200 and look to see how close we get to our theoretical 20%-25%. Would love for someone with 0-affection droid to test it and also someone with a 10,000 affection droid.
Well, it took a month and a half, but I finally found a good reason to mass produce items using my ship droid: 1.3.

I've been making a ton of earpieces so I can RE them on 1.3 day for Augment Kit components. Here's what I found so far:

Companion: 2V-R8
Affection: Maximum (+5%)
Item level: level 49 Earpiece, yellow difficulty (+15%)
Additional Bonuses: Cybertech Sensor Module (+5%)
Total Crit Chance: +25%

Test 1: 15 crits out of 100 ear pieces
Actual Crit Rate: 15%
Difference between Expected and Actual: -10%

I will post my second test as soon as I can. With 1.3 right around the corner, now is the perfect time to test these kinds of things! If you want to help with testing, post in a format similar to the one above. The more attempts you have, the more accurate your findings will be.

Darzil's Avatar


Darzil
06.25.2012 , 03:19 AM | #29
Am going to test. Reporting this now so it's clear that my next findings are going to be unbiased by selection bias (ie I'm going to report whatever I find, not just if things are bad).

Current test plan is to make 100 Level 9 Mods, and 100 Level 9 Armorings with the droid equipment equipped, then repeat this with it unequipped. My droid hasn't got maxed affection, but this shouldn't matter for testing the effect of the equipment. I will keep the affection the same (3946) for all tests. More tests would be preferred, but this will be testing the limits of my sanity as it is!

Expected results if what we've been told is correct, assuming affection relationship is linear (as it is for time taken) :
Grey item - Base 15% chance
Affection Bonus - 2% chance (as near as matters)
Equipment : +5% chance

Expected rate with equipment : 22%
Expected rate without equipment : 17%

Edit - End of stage one (with equipment) :
37 criticals from 200 attempts = 19.5%

Edit Two - End of stage two (without equipment) :
28 criticals from 200 attempts = 14%

Conclusions :

Well, caveat's about lack of trials aside, it looks like the Droid equipment does provide a bonus. It is less certain that the Droid affection does. (The trial above this one, which overestimates the chance of a crit on an orange item (base 10% chance, not 15% I think? (http://dulfy.net/2012/04/22/companio...nuses-for-1-2/) is also in line with Base chance + Droid equipment, but excluding Affection.

Perhaps someone else would like to trial against Droid affection, maybe someone with zero and 10k affection ?

Rischardo's Avatar


Rischardo
06.25.2012 , 12:15 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Darzil View Post
Am going to test. Reporting this now so it's clear that my next findings are going to be unbiased by selection bias (ie I'm going to report whatever I find, not just if things are bad).

Current test plan is to make 100 Level 9 Mods, and 100 Level 9 Armorings with the droid equipment equipped, then repeat this with it unequipped. My droid hasn't got maxed affection, but this shouldn't matter for testing the effect of the equipment. I will keep the affection the same (3946) for all tests. More tests would be preferred, but this will be testing the limits of my sanity as it is!

Expected results if what we've been told is correct, assuming affection relationship is linear (as it is for time taken) :
Grey item - Base 15% chance
Affection Bonus - 2% chance (as near as matters)
Equipment : +5% chance

Expected rate with equipment : 22%
Expected rate without equipment : 17%

Edit - End of stage one (with equipment) :
37 criticals from 200 attempts = 19.5% (how inconclusive is that!)

Commencing stage two (without equipment)
level 9 items? Are you just trying to get rid of mats? Haha, well thanks for doing this. I think the crit rate might be higher on lower level items, but I'm not absolutely certain.

Btw, I'm about half way through my second set of 100...this batch is starting to look worse than the first.