Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Buff Operatives


kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
05.04.2012 , 03:59 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Squatdog_nz View Post
Neither can any other Operative without a Marauder buff on top of biochem adrenal and trinket.

You are Bad.
You mean like, it's difficult to get a marauder in your team nowadays?

Which heavenly server do you play at! No marauders!! Woo Hoo!!!

Any more arguments that I can crush?
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

Valperion's Avatar


Valperion
05.04.2012 , 04:00 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Squatdog_nz View Post
Assassins have stealth, a gap closer, a (talented) pull and survivability.

Operatives have one of these.
You keep forgetting a very simple concept.

Operatives are a stealth ranged class.
* Have heals

While Assassins are a stealth melee class.
* Assassins don't have heals... etcetc
iŻi▀▀ V. A. L. ▀▀▀▀iŻi‾°δ‾‾Pך██████████▓▒░Loyal Servant of the Sith Empire░▒▓██████████ị

Maxkardinal's Avatar


Maxkardinal
05.04.2012 , 04:03 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Oho, here comes the "but they have teams guarding and healing" argument. Suddenly, we now move away from the 1vs1 balance, and conveniently start comparing ONE Ops against the whole enemy squad.

Two can play this game.

Bring in two ~ three Ops and burst the same target all at once from stealth, before the lone guardsman starts using AoE taunts. Problem solved.
If you are thinking this game is about 1v1 - you are having NOOOOOO clue at all.

I was comparing dps Ops abilities to execute its team role - deliver damage when and where its needed - against actions could be done to prevent it.

Actaully your phrase about mrauder 4 sec stealth is showing it all. You will be surprised but 4 sec is just enough to get back on target after knockback (when leap on CD), and tahts what melee clas needs - stay at your target.

I dont see point in arguing with you about pvp, you are missing the basics.
For now my impressions of SWTOR progect can be illustrated by this video
Dev team are the Uzzy, and his ring entrance is BioWare behaviour during pre release advertaising. And the end - is the clash with the reality. >>My characters<<

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
05.04.2012 , 04:04 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Valperion View Post
You keep forgetting a very simple concept.

Operatives are a stealth ranged class.
* Have heals

While Assassins are a stealth melee class.
* Assassins don't have heals... etcetc
Heh,

I smell a "but I don't use ranged powers.. it's pathetic. Only the first opening burst means anything" argument coming from somewhere.
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

Aetou's Avatar


Aetou
05.04.2012 , 04:05 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Do the Pyros also have the luxury of remaining invisible when wants to?
So because a class has stealth, which I don't deny has a lot of utility in WZs, they should not have anything else?

Quote:
Besides, here comes the "they nerfed the opening burst so bad" claim again. So just which point are we comparing it with? From the point when SWTOR first went live and they literally DID 3 shot enemies in bullshi* mega-spikes? If you're laying your standards from those days, then that would be a seriously bad, bad point to compare anything.
I'm saying that there was a time when Operatives did have crazy burst compared to other classes and so that argument had some merit. These days Operatives do not have crazy burst, either compared to their former selves or to other classes.



Quote:
...for 4 seconds. Good comparison.
Actually, when I use Disappearing Act it is normally only for 4-6s. Sometimes it is for longer, but often it isn't. Sentinels also get a speed boost with their ability and a damage reduction. Disappearing Act has a longer CD, more drawbacks and less perks - so if just reducing the CD to be in line with Force Camo is too much just give us another ability that is very similar to it. Heck, Smuggle is close enough to useless so just replace that with a short gap closer/escape tool and I don't think a single Scoundrel would complain.



Quote:
Actually the problem is people want stuff for free. They go up PvP builds and classes, and then complain they're less efficient in PvE. Whoop dee too, what do you want, a do-all, be-all, end-all performance spec that lets you have all the mighty traits for PvP as well as sickly levels of PvE performance?

It is a very well known fact, with almost all MMOGs, that there are differences in PvP builds and PvE builds.

Drop the greed, man. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
It's one thing to have different PVE and PVP builds, it is another to make it so that a class doesn't have an endgame PVE build. If they advertised clearly that Scoundrels were a PVP only DPS class then, again, you might have a point but every other class has viable builds for both. If Scoundrels were the strongest PVP class then being the weakest PVE class might be justified, but they simply aren't - Shadows are better than them at both PVP and PVE. That is a balance issue, and is making a comparison which takes stealth out of the equation. Heck, if they make Dirty Fighting a competent sustained dps PVE build and left Scrapper as a PVP build then that would be fine but right now I don't believe you are right in saying that Scrapper should be both an average PVP build and a terrible PVE one.

willyshoot's Avatar


willyshoot
05.04.2012 , 04:07 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
A surge-invested Ops/Scoundrel with similar gear level, using same adrenals and trinkets, does practicall the same thing to a pathetically frail Juggy in Shicho or Shien. 5k 4k 3k plus DoTs.

Opening up from stealth of course.

So what was the point of this chest thumping here?
Combat logs or it didn't happen.

I WILL quote combat logs.. I took 1.4m damage last night. How much from Hidden Strike? 0.... nada.. none.... zilch... not a single hit. Why? Because it doesn't hit for anyway near what you claim, all concealment ops have gone heals.

As proved previously with logs HS hits for (on average) 2.3k. No where near these 5k hits people reckon we do.

Out of the 1.4m damage what was the biggest hitters? master Strike and Smash... both maxing at over 5k with 1200+ expertise.

BW literally have no idea of how to balance this game and is religiously defended by blind fan boys.

Maxkardinal's Avatar


Maxkardinal
05.04.2012 , 04:07 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Heh,

I smell a "but I don't use ranged powers.. it's pathetic. Only the first opening burst means anything" argument coming from somewhere.
But i smell taht you would be protecting point that snipers have strong melee abilities and should stand toe to toe with any melee class instead of breaking distance.
For now my impressions of SWTOR progect can be illustrated by this video
Dev team are the Uzzy, and his ring entrance is BioWare behaviour during pre release advertaising. And the end - is the clash with the reality. >>My characters<<

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
05.04.2012 , 04:07 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Maxkardinal View Post
If you are thinking this game is about 1v1 - you are having NOOOOOO clue at all.
Weren't you the one who came up with a situation where your lonely Ops is trying to hit a healer, guarded, and another tank nearby, and then complained you can't do much damage on the healer?


Quote:
I was comparing dps Ops abilities to execute its team role - deliver damage when and where its needed - against actions could be done to prevent it.
No, you were comparing ONE dps Ops against THREE enemies, in a tactically defensive position.


Quote:
Actaully your phrase about mrauder 4 sec stealth is showing it all. You will be surprised but 4 sec is just enough to get back on target after knockback (when leap on CD), and tahts what melee clas needs - stay at your target.
Where's your gun? (Refer to the smirky prediction I made in the above posts)


Quote:
I dont see point in arguing with you about pvp, you are missing the basics.
...and you're a whiner who can't stop dreaming about the good ol' Op days of balance-busting mega spikes.

Wake up, friend.
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

Squatdog_nz's Avatar


Squatdog_nz
05.04.2012 , 04:10 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
You mean like, it's difficult to get a marauder in your team nowadays?

Which heavenly server do you play at! No marauders!! Woo Hoo!!!

Any more arguments that I can crush?
Bloodthirst requires 30 stacks of Fury,has a 15sec duration, with a 5min cooldown

Just stop talking.

Valperion's Avatar


Valperion
05.04.2012 , 04:13 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Heh,

I smell a "but I don't use ranged powers.. it's pathetic. Only the first opening burst means anything" argument coming from somewhere.
They can't really make a argument.
* Its essentially people defending their skill tree.
* People have this concept in believing that the "Concealment" tree should have everything.

Players should really try the "Lethality" tree, every skill tree has a different advantage/disadvantage.
* But of course, there will always be that group that needs something more.
iŻi▀▀ V. A. L. ▀▀▀▀iŻi‾°δ‾‾Pך██████████▓▒░Loyal Servant of the Sith Empire░▒▓██████████ị