Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Buff Operatives


Aetou's Avatar


Aetou
05.04.2012 , 03:33 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
At max level with proper itemization the class/build does what the designers want:

Heavily front-loaded damage, in other words massive burst during the opener.

Change that and the class design changes.

Keep that and buff the class and you approach Alpha.

---
So the designers want the class to be lousy in Operations? Bah, I think not. The way the game is designed, having Scoundrels be just the 'burst damage' class isn't an option because for half the endgame that has zero value. Plus, they have already nerfed the burst damage so much that other classes such as Pyros can do the same burst but without the inconvenience of getting within 4m and behind the target.

Stealth as a gap closer? Yeah, that argument would work if Shadows didn't have both and if Scoundrels could re-stealth more than once every 2-3minutes. Reduce the Cool Down of Disappearing Act to 60s and perhaps then that would work as a gap closer. I have a feeling people would dislike that change a lot though, despite the fact Marauders can stealth in combat that frequently.

I still think that the two main issues facing a Scoundrel are (1) Sustained PVE damage and (2) Mobility. I don't want a Shadow Step ability or a Sprint, however. I'd much prefer the class got some partial immunity to roots and snares - that would keep the class unique and fits the flavour perfectly while solving the 'If I'm not in stealth, because I got clipped by an AOE 30s ago, I can't get to that Sorc because I'm crawling along."

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
05.04.2012 , 03:34 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Squatdog_nz View Post
Assassins are the other stealth-based class and are FAR better than Operatives in every way apart from being able to spec for heals.

LMAO@stealth being a 'gap-closer' like Force Charge, Grapple, Force Sprint etc...
Do you not understand the question; "Were we talking about Assasins?"


(ps)
Quote:
LMAO@stealth being a 'gap-closer' like Force Charge, Grapple, Force Sprint etc...
Who needs force charge, force sprint, etc.. when you can close in and finish the ones that cannot survive the first opening spike?
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
05.04.2012 , 03:38 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Aetou View Post
So the designers want the class to be lousy in Operations? Bah, I think not. The way the game is designed, having Scoundrels be just the 'burst damage' class isn't an option because for half the endgame that has zero value. Plus, they have already nerfed the burst damage so much that other classes such as Pyros can do the same burst but without the inconvenience of getting within 4m and behind the target.
Do the Pyros also have the luxury of remaining invisible when wants to?

Besides, here comes the "they nerfed the opening burst so bad" claim again. So just which point are we comparing it with? From the point when SWTOR first went live and they literally DID 3 shot enemies in bullshi* mega-spikes? If you're laying your standards from those days, then that would be a seriously bad, bad point to compare anything.


Quote:
Stealth as a gap closer? Yeah, that argument would work if Shadows didn't have both and if Scoundrels could re-stealth more than once every 2-3minutes. Reduce the Cool Down of Disappearing Act to 60s and perhaps then that would work as a gap closer. I have a feeling people would dislike that change a lot though, despite the fact Marauders can stealth in combat that frequently.
...for 4 seconds. Good comparison.


Quote:
I still think that the two main issues facing a Scoundrel are (1) Sustained PVE damage and (2) Mobility. I don't want a Shadow Step ability or a Sprint, however. I'd much prefer the class got some partial immunity to roots and snares - that would keep the class unique and fits the flavour perfectly while solving the 'If I'm not in stealth, because I got clipped by an AOE 30s ago, I can't get to that Sorc because I'm crawling along."
Actually the problem is people want stuff for free. They go up PvP builds and classes, and then complain they're less efficient in PvE. Whoop dee too, what do you want, a do-all, be-all, end-all performance spec that lets you have all the mighty traits for PvP as well as sickly levels of PvE performance?

It is a very well known fact, with almost all MMOGs, that there are differences in PvP builds and PvE builds.

Drop the greed, man. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

Squatdog_nz's Avatar


Squatdog_nz
05.04.2012 , 03:40 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
Do you not understand the question; "Were we talking about Assasins?"


(ps)


Who needs force charge, force sprint, etc.. when you can close in and finish the ones that cannot survive the first opening spike?
On a similarly-geared Jugg, I can bust trinkets and drop a 7k Smash auto-crit, followed by a 3.5k Force Scream crit and a 3.5k execute crit, instantly closing the gap from 30m, without stealth.

You are Bad.

Maxkardinal's Avatar


Maxkardinal
05.04.2012 , 03:43 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
1. You have stealth.
2. Pick your battles carefully.
3. Problem solved.


(ps)

Thanks for admitting your stealth is your gap closer.
So, since you already have a gap closer, tell me why you need another one?

Stealth on Operative would become gap closer if cloack screen would be on 30 sec CD and granted you immunity from stealth breaking at least for 6 sec.

You can not get back on your target after knockback/pull as any onter melee can. If you dont understand how easly this would be abused in organized PvP - its not making class fine.

In PUGs well geared and well played Operatives/scoundrels are godlike. Especially in catching unguarded healers and udergeared bads, who dont understatnd how to conter them and there are people around who dont give a **** - randoms. But who care obout PUGs right?

Play one and you will feel the difference between 5500 opener, and 4900 BS on a healer with 14k hp and no guard, and 2400 opener and 2100 BS on 19k hp healer with guard and tank, ready to assist. When you find yourself hitting for laughable numbers after getting taunted and NO option to switch target other but walk to new one, or burn 2 min CD and still walk, you will see how operatives are fine and how effective stealth as gap closer.
For now my impressions of SWTOR progect can be illustrated by this video
Dev team are the Uzzy, and his ring entrance is BioWare behaviour during pre release advertaising. And the end - is the clash with the reality. >>My characters<<

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
05.04.2012 , 03:46 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Squatdog_nz View Post
On a similarly-geared Jugg, I can bust trinkets and drop a 7k Smash auto-crit, followed by a 3.5k Force Scream crit and a 3.5k execute crit, instantly closing the gap from 30m, without stealth.

You are Bad.
A surge-invested Ops/Scoundrel with similar gear level, using same adrenals and trinkets, does practicall the same thing to a pathetically frail Juggy in Shicho or Shien. 5k 4k 3k plus DoTs.

Opening up from stealth of course.

So what was the point of this chest thumping here?
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
05.04.2012 , 03:50 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Maxkardinal View Post
Stealth on Operative would become gap closer if cloack screen would be on 30 sec CD and granted you immunity from stealth breaking at least for 6 sec.

You can not get back on your target after knockback/pull as any onter melee can. If you dont understand how easly this would be abused in organized PvP - its not making class fine.

In PUGs well geared and well played Operatives/scoundrels are godlike. Especially in catching unguarded healers and udergeared bads, who dont understatnd how to conter them and there are people around who dont give a **** - randoms. But who care obout PUGs right?

Play one and you will feel the difference between 5500 opener, and 4900 BS on a healer with 14k hp and no guard, and 2400 opener and 2100 BS on 19k hp healer with guard and tank, ready to assist. When you find yourself hitting for laughable numbers after getting taunted and NO option to switch target other but walk to new one, or burn 2 min CD and still walk, you will see how operatives are fine and how effective stealth as gap closer.
Oho, here comes the "but they have teams guarding and healing" argument. Suddenly, we now move away from the 1vs1 balance, and conveniently start comparing ONE Ops against the whole enemy squad.

Two can play this game.

Bring in two ~ three Ops and burst the same target all at once from stealth, before the lone guardsman starts using AoE taunts. With the use of those same trinkets and adrenals mentioned in other posts, ofcourse. A mildly comparable gear level will yield at least 7k damage within the first 5 seconds from 3 different sources, a nice 21k damage distributed evenly to the guardsman and the healer for 10.5k damage each.

Problem solved, no?

[EDIT/PS]

Quote:
...and 2400 opener and 2100 BS on 19k hp healer with guard and tank, ready to assist...
Guess why you guys are given the gift of stealth. I think it has something to do with this little thing called "tactical opportunity"... like, finding a moment where the "guard" and "tank" are preoccupied with something else. Happens pretty often in chaotic fights, too.
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

Squatdog_nz's Avatar


Squatdog_nz
05.04.2012 , 03:51 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
A surge-invested Ops/Scoundrel with similar gear level, using same adrenals and trinkets, does practicall the same thing to a pathetically frail Juggy in Shicho or Shien. 5k 4k 3k plus DoTs.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

(no)

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
05.04.2012 , 03:54 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Squatdog_nz View Post
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

(no)
What, you can't do that?

Figures.
"To everything, there is a first step. The first steps in becoming better at PvP, is to acknowledge the fact that you totally suck. There's no shame in this -- even the greatest of players have been there, done that.
Stop complaining. Ask more questions. People are happy to help."

Squatdog_nz's Avatar


Squatdog_nz
05.04.2012 , 03:57 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by kweassa View Post
What, you can't do that?

Figures.
Neither can any other Operative without a Marauder buff on top of biochem adrenal and trinket.

You are Bad.