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Too many heroics = slow progression


noire's Avatar


noire
12.17.2011 , 07:28 PM | #11
The heroic quests are optional and to my liking there are not too many of them. I don't really need to do every single one either. Search for a group while doing other things. Use the general channel. Don't wait around to be invited, if you see someone (and you most likely will, if not you're not paying any attention) looking for a group for some heroic quest that you might have, invite that person. That's one of the main problems I think, I see four people looking for a group to the same place in the general chat within two minutes of eachother - yet no one actually invites the others.

When it comes to flashpoints, they're a little bit more annoying considering you've got to be at the fleet, more or less to find people for a flashpoints. However, finding people for flashpoints takes... perhaps, twenty minutes or something similar to that. Considering you're a tank, you should have no problems what so ever - cause just as every other MMO, tanks and healers are what people are looking for. Are you sure you've not been rude and obnoxious to every other player out there and that's the reason why you can't find any groups?
If I have no free will then how can I be morally culpable, I wonder.

Methane's Avatar


Methane
12.17.2011 , 08:26 PM | #12
Also a powertech tank yet I have had no issues finding people to do heroic quests with unless i tried asking in the wee hours.

I agree with many others in saying that they are optional, if I can find the time and the people required to do them, it's very enjoyable, otherwise my class quests are enjoyable too. On top of that, from what I've seen the heroic quests are all at the end of chains or stand alone quests and none of them require completion in order to move on to other things. I could understand the frustration if Bioware hid a bunch of other content behind the wall of an [Heroic 4] quest, but they don't. If you want the story element and can't find a group, come back when you outclass it.

halfhourofpower's Avatar


halfhourofpower
12.17.2011 , 08:31 PM | #13
An alternative to doing heroics with a group is saving them for last, after you've finished everything else in the zone. That way you'll have a gear/level advantage over the mobs and it will go a lot more smoothly. There is no real story behind heroic quests so, yeah. Only disadvantage is having to wait. A lot of people do like group content like this, myself included, but I see what you're saying. In any case, give it a shot!
KFC, now with more Jesus!

CorvinRok's Avatar


CorvinRok
12.17.2011 , 08:50 PM | #14
This game is incredibly fast leveling...

I don't see the issue... some *bosses are still available for attack, even if you are leveled higher than they, and they return good XP.. like the stuff in the Jedi Temple area (not in the temple, but outside it).. if you are that level, for example..

I am a slow player and yet have leveled 15 in less than 24 hours... that seems quick to me... I am sure others have gone a lot faster...

maybe it hangs up in later levels .. but so far, it seems clean
Corvin Rok
[swg legend]

LeSamourai's Avatar


LeSamourai
12.17.2011 , 09:02 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by OmniDo View Post
I can understand your perspective as a Tank, however almost any Heal-capable AC can solo most of those "heroics" with their companions once they are +2 or +3 levels adjusted above the flashpoint.

In some cases, they can solo it entirely by themselves.

What I dont understand is the general concept of "Must have a full group." nonsense, which is simply that: nonsense.

I dual-box two accounts and characters simultaneously, and I have no difficulty duo'ing every flashpoint without a full group, regardless of what the "Recommended for <x number> of players" warning says.

The real issue in this instance is not being able to choose which "type" of companion you get at level 10, not the fact that people are unwilling to group with you.

Consulars/Inquisitors get a "Tank" Companion right out the door, which means they dont have to tank at all, even though they both have an AC which is designed for this.

The other classes dont have the same options, as their starting companions arent all heal-types that can work with the Tanking AC's at that level.

A solution would be to allow the player to choose the given roll for their Companion, if not have both types of companions available from the start.

Honestly, I see no point in creating two "sets" of companions for both Warrior/Inquisitor and Knight/Consular, as all the companion "types" do the same things, regardless of which NPC is assigned to each class.
A more effective method would be to let the player decide which of two "Types" of companions they want at level 10, and them simply switch the existing ones to make up for it as the character levels.

For example:

All Classes get either a Tank or DPS type companion when they reach level 9-10.
This is only conducive for classes that have heal-capable AC's until the next companion is unlocked.

For players who choose Tank/DPS classes and AC's, their companions are either tanks, (useless) or extra DPS, which is also more or less useless.

This makes solo'ing content or minimizing flashpoint group sizes restrictive, as those players MUST have a heal-capable member in their group in order to survive the Elite/Boss/Champion encounters.

The only way around not having a healer for the lower level flashpoints is to simply out-dps the high-health targets via attrition: Kill them before your player/companion "Tank" dies.

sigh...dude you are the exception. Do you realize how many people dualbox MMOs? It's an INCREDIBLY small amount.
meh, I just want to play SWTOR

Jxspyder's Avatar


Jxspyder
12.17.2011 , 10:53 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by OmniDo View Post
Unfortunately, this is not an viable solution.
Players want to enjoy the content NOW, and get the Modable items which they can keep throughout their leveling adventures NOW, not have to come back 5+ levels later and solo the entire dungeon.
Then if you want that reward NOW, be prepared to find a group, or another individual person plus companions, to do it with. It's really that simple. Especially when we're not discussing instances, we're discussing heroic quests within a zone.


Quote:
This is also not useful, since many players will elect to ignore other players, other than buffing them for courtesy sake and helping them out in a pinch (if the player is about to die) if they are able to. I do both the former and the latter all the time, but I rarely ever invite other players for Heroic 2 or 2+ zones, since thats what my companion is for.

If I am unable to complete said quest via attrition, then I simply move onto the next quest and do it later, 1 or 2 levels adjusted.
It's perfectly useful. It's not Bioware's job to make people play with you, it's yours. If you have trouble, find a group, play with friends, join a guild, change servers.....do something to find more helpful and friendly people.

Quote:
This is not an issue for quests, but becomes an issue for flashpoints, since the whole point behind a flashPoint is to have a group to do it with.
Given we're speaking of open world heroics, rather than flashpoints, this would indeed be useless. Though again, Bioware can't make people play with you. That's your job.

Quote:
While Im perfectly fine with solo'ing or dual-boxing everything (where mathematically possible) by myself, (the end-game is my goal, not the leveling) most people play this game for the social aspects.

The goal is to make grouping "optional", not required, with the exception of course being the the end-game Raid encounters.
Grouping is optional. Heroics are optional quests. Just like all the other quests on a planet. For that matter, end game raiding....is optional. The only quests that can be considered mandatory, are the class ones. Which thus far in my experience, haven't required a group to complete.

Having an overblown sense of entitlement doesn't change the fact that those quests are optional. If you want to get the rewards from those quests, then you have to do those quests....many of which require you to group up. Just like if you want the rewards from a Raid.....you have to do that raid.
Quote: Originally Posted by Shortwave View Post
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rothchilds's Avatar


rothchilds
12.17.2011 , 11:07 PM | #17
maybe you should wait until the game actually has a launch date. You do understand everyone playing is just the pre launch crowd that most likely played beta, and have done the flashpoints up to around level 25 and maybe dont want to do them again.

Wait till the fresh people come in , then complain

lnknprk's Avatar


lnknprk
12.17.2011 , 11:13 PM | #18
I'm guilty of being one of those people that sometimes just ignores people looking for groups, and solo's the Heroic 2+ quests, but not the Heroic 4+. I like going at my own pace, and joining a group to do something that can be done solo seems unnecessary. I still like that there's group quests in the game. I just opt not to get a group for every single one.

I don't see how it slows progression, since it's an option. If you're class quest becomes a group quest that prevents you from progressing to the next leveling area, then you have a complaint. Until then though, it's just optional quests that feel like requirements because their on the quest log. Just dump the quest if it bugs you. Out of sight, out of mind.

Ankido's Avatar


Ankido
12.17.2011 , 11:29 PM | #19
I'm never rude and constantly ask in general every 2 minutes about flash points and heroics. Unfortunately, I haven't found anyone that wants to do them. If you put something in the game and call it a quest, I don't look at it as optional. My mission will be to do them and if not, I will feel disappointed.

I really don't see the logic in heroic. Maybe have us fight through mobs and our final fight is a boss, that could work. To make every moth strong and elite is ludicrous. I don't want to hear, "skip it for later levels". That's not the point. If the quest is my level, why not do it and get more xp instead of losing xp at later levels?

You don't have to defend bioware, this is not an attack. Just something I don't agree with and think it's quite stupid and doesn't belong. Remember rift and having to fight in rifts? That was a beautiful concept.
No Sith, no Emperor, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the galaxy than the Jedi Counsil.
Against that power, the Sith cannot stand.
<[Ankido]> - Jedi Guardian

ViperI's Avatar


ViperI
12.17.2011 , 11:45 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Ankido View Post
If you put something in the game and call it a quest, I don't look at it as optional. My mission will be to do them and if not, I will feel disappointed.
That is your own psycological issue, not a problem with the game. Heroics are simply group level content. If you don't have, or can't find, a group, just move on and skip it. This is an MMO, you're not meant to do every single piece of content. There is intentionally more content available than what is necessary to progress. You are making the choice to not move on to other content and instead, wait on groupings for content that may never happen. I'm sad to say, but you're doing this to yourself. Bioware has to make a game with broad appeal and some people like to group on a regular basis at the mid/low levels. Others don't, ok fine, maybe that's you, but don't come here and say they should take out content that others enjoy.
Viper 1
Frozen In Carbonite