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What is endgame progression and what do players want that is missing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > New Player Help
What is endgame progression and what do players want that is missing?

Freshtech's Avatar


Freshtech
04.29.2012 , 11:21 PM | #1
One of the biggest criticisms I see on the forums is that people complain there is no endgame content or progression in TOR. This seems to be a big issue, as I even see a lot of people rush through leveling to get to the endgame stage, only to be disappointed. As this is my first ever MMO, I want to know what is endgame and what is missing in TOR that players want? What do other games do that TOR doesn't?

From what I gather, endgame is what you do after you've reached 50 and finished the class story, right? What would you like to see to keep you interested after doing that? The way I see it, legacy is the endgame, as it provides incentives to level alts and makes the process more interesting and less tedious. But it seems like a lot of people don't want to do this, and just want to keep playing one character.
S'yrenity - Mandalore the Healer

Empress Teta Refugee on The Harbinger

amantheil's Avatar


amantheil
04.29.2012 , 11:35 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Freshtech View Post
One of the biggest criticisms I see on the forums is that people complain there is no endgame content or progression in TOR. This seems to be a big issue, as I even see a lot of people rush through leveling to get to the endgame stage, only to be disappointed. As this is my first ever MMO, I want to know what is endgame and what is missing in TOR that players want? What do other games do that TOR doesn't?

From what I gather, endgame is what you do after you've reached 50 and finished the class story, right? What would you like to see to keep you interested after doing that? The way I see it, legacy is the endgame, as it provides incentives to level alts and makes the process more interesting and less tedious. But it seems like a lot of people don't want to do this, and just want to keep playing one character.
I'll try to respond as neutrally as possible, because I don't want to turn this into a big argument. I haven't raided in SWTOR, but I have raided in other games.

For PvE, the progression they're referring to is mainly operations (raiding). ("Raid" is a common MMO term, "Operations" is the SWTOR term for a raid). Raids have different levels of difficulty, and the gear that drops is better with each gear. So raiding progression is you work on one raid for a while, gearing up gradually, until you've beat it and everyone in your guild/raiding group has enough gear for the next raid, which will be tougher. And in some MMOs, it can be difficult - it's not uknown to spend months trying to clear out a certain raid, often wiping on a partiularly tough boss for many attempts over several weeks.

That system does exist in SWTOR - there are multiple Operations with different tiers. But it seems like many of the raiders out there feel the SWTOR ops are too easy - they clear out the entire raid in only a few attempts, get geared up quickly, and then have no new challenges. They're looking for an Operations that will take a few months for them to complete, not one that can be finished in 1 or 2 attempts.

Holinyx's Avatar


Holinyx
04.30.2012 , 01:21 AM | #3
i think most people are used to EQ / WoW type raiding and that's pretty much what they were expecting in Swtor but it's totally different. Yes, once a guild learns the Operations, you can usually blow through them in 2-3 hours. Pretty easy to get Rakata geared in only a few raids, depending on drops.
Not all Bounty Hunters die screaming like a 4 yr old girl.

sakieh's Avatar


sakieh
04.30.2012 , 02:39 AM | #4
From my experiences, Endgame is where the game pretty much turns into level alternate characters
while talking with your guildies because Raid times are never when you can be on(due to work and RL),
and so you do things like help your lowbie guildies out, do crafting and such to help the guild.
Endgame progression is that constantly moving bar of what your guild wants you to have so you can raid, but
that you can never QUITE catch up to...because you weren't there for their first raids. In essence, Endgame is
the most frustrating part of the game for someone who does things other then play the game. Most of the people
who complain about there being a lack of Endgame Content pretty much are the professional MMO players or
are people who are fortunate to have high paying, low hour jobs, or are people on disability and who have nothing
else to do. Not saying any of these are bad, mind you, but they are the reasons why someone is able to put
the time in to be bored.

PolishRifle's Avatar


PolishRifle
04.30.2012 , 08:11 AM | #5
I took my time reaching 50, started in the early access stage and got my first toon to 50 a week before 1.2 hit. I'm very casual (10-15 hrs a week) so I enjoy the stories. My guild runs a normal mode operation 1 day a week for fresh 50's and does 1 HM a week, the 3rd raid is based on who is available and what gear they have. Sometimes I do dailies, sometimes I level an alt (I enjoy the stories so it takes time to progress), sometimes I go to a low level planet to harvest materials for my alts to level their crafting skill, sometimes I PvP.

This game is perfect for a player like me because I dip into all aspects of the game and am not focused on one area. Thats where it seems the players are complaining, the PvE only or PvP only, only 1 character, or the hardcore crafters. End Game is whatever you want it to be, if you get bored doing the same raid go into a WZ, do a space mission, whatever floats your boat.

Malvorno's Avatar


Malvorno
04.30.2012 , 10:43 AM | #6
MMOs never end.

People will complain about anything

They came from....behind

Damodude's Avatar


Damodude
04.30.2012 , 11:22 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by sakieh View Post
From my experiences, Endgame is where the game pretty much turns into level alternate characters
while talking with your guildies because Raid times are never when you can be on(due to work and RL),
and so you do things like help your lowbie guildies out, do crafting and such to help the guild.
Endgame progression is that constantly moving bar of what your guild wants you to have so you can raid, but
that you can never QUITE catch up to...because you weren't there for their first raids. In essence, Endgame is
the most frustrating part of the game for someone who does things other then play the game. Most of the people
who complain about there being a lack of Endgame Content pretty much are the professional MMO players or
are people who are fortunate to have high paying, low hour jobs, or are people on disability and who have nothing
else to do. Not saying any of these are bad, mind you, but they are the reasons why someone is able to put
the time in to be bored.
My ops group has cleared hard mode everything, in 4 weeks worth of 8 hrs a week raiding. Quit being melodramatic. SWTOR is the casual raider's wet dream.

paltrysum's Avatar


paltrysum
04.30.2012 , 04:47 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by sakieh View Post
Most of the people
who complain about there being a lack of Endgame Content pretty much are the professional MMO players or
are people who are fortunate to have high paying, low hour jobs, or are people on disability and who have nothing
else to do. Not saying any of these are bad, mind you, but they are the reasons why someone is able to put
the time in to be bored.
Also college kids on academic probation, soon-to-be divorced men, negligent parents, and military personnel with time on their hands.

Raiding is bad for your health. I hope this game keeps a light approach to it.

shatejesla's Avatar


shatejesla
04.30.2012 , 06:43 PM | #9
I'm with you, PolishRifle. Weird work schedules can ruin any and every MMO if you try to keep up with the big dogs. I hate to see so many hardcore people unhappy, but for the casual/off-hour gamer, this game is great.

Feel like burning some time and making noobs smile and drool? Run them through Esseles (or the Imp version idk the name of) at lightspeed 2 or 3 times. (Ups your social score and light/dark side too)

Craft for your guild, craft for your alts, stalk the opposing faction in a doomed attempt to revive world pvp... the options are pretty good. If you don't mind low-no difficulty in your entertainment, there's no reason to be bored.

MMornard's Avatar


MMornard
04.30.2012 , 07:09 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by amantheil View Post
it's not uknown to spend months trying to clear out a certain raid, often wiping on a partiularly tough boss for many attempts over several weeks..
This is where the disagreements come in; for me, the situation described above is not "fun," but rather a workable analog for Hell.