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Jedi Hypocrisy as Displayed on Tython

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Jedi Hypocrisy as Displayed on Tython

Icebergy's Avatar


Icebergy
04.29.2012 , 08:18 AM | #11
Jedi were forbidden from helping the Twiliek Pilgrims by the Republic because the Republic considered them an illegal settlement. Can't blame the Jedi for that, especially when several members argued doing it anyways.
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Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
04.29.2012 , 09:32 AM | #12
The Jedi Order, imo are about 95% hypocrites as it stands. They look down on anyone that isn't THEM, since they seem to be the most elitist snobs in the entire Galaxy. Yes, THE most elitist. They put the Sith to shame.

Now, to play Devil's Advocate for a moment: The Flesh Raiders are extremely barbaric, and all diplomatic expeditions by the Jedi to the Flesh Raiders have been met with violence. ALL of them. Also, in response to the Twi'lek settlement being illegal, the Jedi ARE bound by Republic Law to uphold and defend the Laws of the Republic FIRST, even if they disagree with those Laws.

Ok, now that THAT's outta the way... Personally, I'm sick to death of the Jedi's hypocrisy and holier-than-thou attitude towards everyone who isn't a Jedi. There are some exceptions to the rule, but not very many. A "good" Jedi doesn't bother to think for him or herself. They just do what the Council says, and what the Republic orders them to do. They drone on and on and on for Queen Bee Republic until they get offed by a Sith or Bounty Hunter who actually DOES think for himself.
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Amien's Avatar


Amien
04.29.2012 , 09:34 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Krenzik View Post


This does not explain why there is no effort to provide basic humanitarian aid and the Jedi Council is content to sit back and just let the Flesheaters tear them apart. If they don't want to endorse this splinter group just moving into their space (note the Jedi did the same thing to the Flesheaters) and set a precedent that could come back to haunt the Republic later on, they should airlift them out. Basically your point conveys that they're not Republic so so their ideals don't apply, Whether it's the Republic government or the Jedi Order itself. If they want to keep Yavin a secluded Jedi incubator, the best solution, if they care at all about the most basic ideals of their order and the society they pledged to protect, is to help them relocate to another world in the Republic.

This isn't the first time the Jedi Council was divided. Master Yuon Parr has been helping them under the table and I think the JK's master sympathizes with them. The Council also refused to send aid to the outer rim during the Mandolorian Wars because they are guardians of peace, not warriors. Eventually Revan forced their hand though.
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JediElf's Avatar


JediElf
04.29.2012 , 10:19 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Ok, now that THAT's outta the way... Personally, I'm sick to death of the Jedi's hypocrisy and holier-than-thou attitude towards everyone who isn't a Jedi. There are some exceptions to the rule, but not very many. A "good" Jedi doesn't bother to think for him or herself. They just do what the Council says, and what the Republic orders them to do. They drone on and on and on for Queen Bee Republic until they get offed by a Sith or Bounty Hunter who actually DOES think for himself.
Well said! Thsi also shows when you encounter Jedi, as a Sith.

Sure my Sith may be a bit 'unhinged' at times, but if I play on the LS of things, I come across as far more balanced, and compassionate, than any Jedi. They really do drone on about 'the order' and their code, it's as if they've been brainwashed...oh wait...

Really I'd rather be a Joiner thain a Jedi. Honestly.

Really how 'good' can you be, if your trained from a young age, to have no emotions. it takes emotion to live, and to show compassion for other living things. A Sith can be evil, but they can also be good, they have the emotional experience to deal with what life gives them.

From my perspective...a Jedi is really a dude with a lightsword, and no coping skills.
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BlueSouthPike's Avatar


BlueSouthPike
04.29.2012 , 10:32 AM | #15
I was under the impression that the whole point of Tython's atmosphere, story-wise, was to show that the Jedi are humanly failible like anyone else, that they're by no means a perfect Order. However, the flip side of that is that the Tython storyline still establishes that individual memebers (and, arguably, the Order as a whole) still strive to improve.

The Jedi can be arrogant, yes. They can be stubborn, they can be short-sighted, they can be jerks, they can make poor choices, they can be, in essence, human (or Zabrak, or Miraluka, or Miralirian, or Twi'lek, etc.). The Jedi Order tries to follow their code the best they can (from their own interpretation), but at the end of the day, the people who make up the Order are, well, people.

To quote a character from another Bioware franchise, "They're Jerks and Saints". The Order has bad members, and it has good members, and it has people who fall somewhere in between. They're individuals, who happen to all follow the same Code, and answer to the same leadership. Saying that the entire Order is guilty of hypocrisy is a bit of a stretch. Surely, some hypocrites exist, but not every Jedi is a hypocrite, just like not every Jedi is incredibly orthodox.

Darth_Solrac's Avatar


Darth_Solrac
04.29.2012 , 10:44 AM | #16
The Jedi Order reeks of holier than thou hypocrisy? Who knew....
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yodajinn's Avatar


yodajinn
04.29.2012 , 10:55 AM | #17
The Jedi moved to Tython after the sacking of Coruscant which happened 10 years before the game starts. Don't you think the Jedi may have tried to be diplomatic with the Flesheaters in that time but nothing came of it. We are given no backstory on what has happened since the sacking of Coruscant and what has happened on Tython since the Jedi relocated to their homeworld.

Krenzik's Avatar


Krenzik
04.29.2012 , 12:18 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by yodajinn View Post
The Jedi moved to Tython after the sacking of Coruscant which happened 10 years before the game starts. Don't you think the Jedi may have tried to be diplomatic with the Flesheaters in that time but nothing came of it. We are given no backstory on what has happened since the sacking of Coruscant and what has happened on Tython since the Jedi relocated to their homeworld.
We may have come upon a plothole here, since there was no mention of botched diplomacy leading to the situation at hand with the flesheaters. As far as the Twi'leks, if the Republic wanted them out, send a regiment of commandos to escort them assertively to a shuttle to take them off world. Even if they don't give the refugees any say in where they're relocated, that's still more in line with the ethos of the Republic/Jedi, and a more believable gray area. There's no real reason to just sit back and let the Flesheaters slaughter them. The Jedi/Republic seems to go out of their way to save what oppressed Twi'leks they could in other contexts.

If they wanted to show underhandedness by the Republic without drawing attention to any wrongdoing, a more plausible way would have been to airlift them out and make sure the ship carrying them has an "accident" after takeoff.

As far as the Jedi writing off the Flesheaters because they didn't talk, it's established that these creatures can communicate verbally with one another. Even if they didn't, writiing, religion, tools, etc. show beyond any measure of doubt that these are sentient beings, not animals.

It doesn't seem like a matter of fallibility here, but just deciding not to follow the most basic parts of their code and ideals simply because they didn't want to.
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bionamaster's Avatar


bionamaster
04.29.2012 , 12:27 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
This is a actually similar to some real life situations - but let's not bring RL into this thread.

1. The Flesh Raiders are extremely vicious. The Jedi don't look down on them because they are less intelligent, they look down on them because the Flesh Raiders MURDER PEOPLE. It's not how intelligent they are, it's how vicious and barbaric they are.
2. The Jedi underestimate their intelligence, but this is in part due to to the fact that the Jedi seem to equate brutality with stupidity - while this sometimes is the case, sometimes thugs can be intelligent (assumptions are bad).
3. The Jedi work to protect members of the REPUBLIC. If the SIS = CIA, and the troopers = military, then the Jedi = FBI/State Police (loosely). The Jedi are bound to follow the laws of the Republic - an illegal settlement means that aiding the Twi'lek pilgrims can be perceived as validating their presence, or condoning a crime. The Jedi Order CANNOT do that. Individual Jedi Knights on the other hand....
Actually, I think the Jedi are more of the UN. They are a peacekeeping corps with a sizable amount of military force backing their efforts.
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Clonedzero's Avatar


Clonedzero
04.29.2012 , 12:38 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by yodajinn View Post
The Jedi moved to Tython after the sacking of Coruscant which happened 10 years before the game starts. Don't you think the Jedi may have tried to be diplomatic with the Flesheaters in that time but nothing came of it. We are given no backstory on what has happened since the sacking of Coruscant and what has happened on Tython since the Jedi relocated to their homeworld.
i thought it was implied that the fleshraiders never really bothered the jedi that much and kept their distance, thats why the attacks at the begining of the tython character arches are such a surprise to everyone. the flesh raiders never really attacked the jedi until bengal morr organized them into an army against the jedi

the flesh raiders attacked the twi'lek village and the jedi wanted to help but the republic forbid it since it was an illegal settlement. which in a way makes sense. if random refugees who didnt want to join the republic found out that anyone settling on tython would be protected by the jedi by default then everyone would swarm there. the jedis new homeworld would be public knowledge. all sorts of bad stuff.

theres also several quests from jedi masters and such asking you to study their cultural artifacts and shrines so they can learn about the fleshraiders to possibly be peaceful with them. this sorta implies that the jedi tried diplomatic relations with them when they frist arrived but the primitive and violent nature of the fleshraiders probably made the jedi decide to just keep their distance