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Jedi Hypocrisy as Displayed on Tython

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Jedi Hypocrisy as Displayed on Tython

thepilk's Avatar


thepilk
05.09.2012 , 03:15 PM | #101
Its structured like that so that YOU as the player character and the budding scion of the jedi order can be the one to put change in motion... to bring light to the issues and strengthen relations between the order, the twileks and the flesh raiders.

Also remember, at the end of the day the jedi code and jedi stardard are ideals and the jedi themselves are only human (so to speak). They make decisions that often dont have right answers and have to attempt to hold their standards as they percieve them, often falling short.
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OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
05.09.2012 , 11:14 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
I would say the Jedi are, well, Knights. Knights who swore loyalty to the Republic. I can take a paragraph from the Wikipedia article "Knight" and change a few words so it fits the Jedi:

"Jedi were asked to "Protect the weak, defenseless, helpless, and fight for the general welfare of all." These few guidelines were the main duties of a Jedi knight, but they were very hard to accomplish fully. Knights trained in meditating, fighting, and diplomacy, amongst other things. They were also trained to practise honorable behaviour, which was considered extremely important. The Jedi code was the main principle guiding a Jedi’s life style. It influenced three main areas: the military, diplomacy, and the use of the Force."

Okay, so the whole "no attachments"/"no emotion" thing makes them a monastic order, but there were monastic orders in history too.

What I want to say: The Jedi have their code and their principles, but they also serve the republic. And if the republic wants to intervene in a civil war, the Jedi will be there and fight.
Btw legally, the republic has every right to intervene on a neutral world if someone (the Organas, Anchorhead, ...) asks for their help.
I had a response typed up last night but the an error erased it so I went to bed. This actually said it better than I would have.

The main other thing I wanted to add was that I don't think that igniting a lightsaber is the equivalent of squeezing a trigger with intent to shoot. If a Jedi were to prepare to defend themselves with a lightsaber they would still ignite it, because it's fairly useless as a defense otherwise.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
05.10.2012 , 01:20 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
I had a response typed up last night but the an error erased it so I went to bed. This actually said it better than I would have.

The main other thing I wanted to add was that I don't think that igniting a lightsaber is the equivalent of squeezing a trigger with intent to shoot. If a Jedi were to prepare to defend themselves with a lightsaber they would still ignite it, because it's fairly useless as a defense otherwise.
Just like with a firearm, you do NOT NEED TO toggle the switch or place your finger on the trigger itself in order to be ready to defend yourself. With a pistol or rifle, you keep your finger along the frame or stock by the trigger well UNTIL you are ready to fire. The same should go with a Lightsaber. If just the sight of a lightsaber hilt isn't enough to deter someone intent on causing a ruckus, and in the case of a Sith, IF said Sith ignites a lightsaber, THEN it would make sense. But for the Jedi to ignite it first shows an aggressive posture that goes against their basic teachings. During the SW story arc, I never ignited my lightsaber first. Only in response to a Jedi igniting his or hers.

Also, in the movies, how many times did the Jedi ignite their lightsabers first? For an Order devoted to peace, it sure seemed to be a "peace through proactive self-defense" policy to me. But then, George retconned Han's proactive self-defense on Greedo.
. OPOD
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EicyLightrider's Avatar


EicyLightrider
05.10.2012 , 01:32 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Krenzik View Post
Rolled a Jedi knight (eventually guardian) last week, and after my first couple missions on the beginning planet Tython, I've noticed some genuine xenophobic and hypocritical behavior that runs directly against Jedi teachings, as either inferred or plainly stated within the game. This involves how the Jedi treat the indigenous Flesheaters and a settlement of Twi'lek refugees.

The flesheaters, as mentioned above, are indigenous to Tython. The Jedi landed and built their temple and training facilities there and have been in conflict with these primitive but sentient tribes for some time. The flesheaters view them as invaders and are acting to remove them from their home. As the story continues, its apparent the Jedi simply landed and moved right in without any sort of diplomatic overtures to the natives, nor any offers of technology, medicine, education, alliance, etc. In fact, in dialogues with Jedi masters, the natives are entirely disregarded as even people because they are not technologically advanced. The solution in dealing with their backlash is to simply kill them, perpetuating a violent cycle that they started.

The Twi'leks on the planet are religious refugees and are already a race that has been oppressed and enslaved for generations. The Jedi reaction to this community is at best indifference. The flesheaters attack the Twi'leks and the Jedi don't care to lift a finger to help them, concerned at the outset only with covering their own butts. Also, there is no effort in the form of relief such as medicines, the means to resettle on another world, or equipment to help them more rapidly build their infrastructure. The Jedi regard their settlement as illegal and encroaching on their territory.

The Jedi are supposed to stand for the freedom of democracy, as the protectors of freedom and the helpless. The order, like the republic are supposed to strive for tolerance and embrace multispecies diversity. We see none of that here on Tython in Part 1. If anything their behavior is borderline Sith in how they deal with the natives and the refugee camp.

If nothing else, you can say the Sith are more up front and honest about their elitism and their gunhand diplomacy.

What do you some of you folks think?
You do know that the Jedi didn't just come here and start building? The Jedi Order started on Tython. It is where the force was "discovered". Those temples have been there for a loooooong time. And if you're playing the Knight class then you would see that the fleshraiders murdering the twileks and padawans are from that corrupt Jedi.

You obviously skipped your story cut scenes?
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Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
05.10.2012 , 04:55 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Also, in the movies, how many times did the Jedi ignite their lightsabers first? For an Order devoted to peace, it sure seemed to be a "peace through proactive self-defense" policy to me. But then, George retconned Han's proactive self-defense on Greedo.
During the first scene of episode 1 the JEdi ignite their lightsabers when they hear a noise.
In Episode 2 all Jedi in the Geonosian Arena ignite their saber first and Mace Windu is threatening Jango Fett with it. And they are kind of the agressor there, they attack to get the prisoners out of there.
In Episode 3 Mace Windu and the others are igniting their sabers when they arrest Palpatine. If they wouldn't have done it, Kit Fisto and probably Mace himself would have died sooner.

And I think during Episode 5 Luke ignites his lightsaber before Vader.

So yes, "peace through proactive self-defense". Also, as far as I have seen, during the Sith warrior story sometimes the Jedi ignite their lightsaber first, sometimes the SW. On Alderaan for example he comes into the room with his lightsaber already ignited. On Tatooine only Yu Li ignites his saber first. On Balmorra the sabers are ignited during the fight. On the ship I think it depends on the conversation. On Hutta, Nomen Karr ignites his first.

So it really depends on the Jedi and the situation.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

smartalectwo's Avatar


smartalectwo
05.10.2012 , 05:17 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
During the first scene of episode 1 the JEdi ignite their lightsabers when they hear a noise.
It was probably less about hearing the noise, and more about sensing the sudden explosive deaths of the crew of their ship.
There is no try.

LordRaeth's Avatar


LordRaeth
05.10.2012 , 12:30 PM | #107
I personally dislike the mission on Tython where the failed aspirant sends you to kill the matriarchs and patriarchs of the local wildlife as well as destroying eggs.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
05.11.2012 , 01:35 AM | #108
Wasn't that so the animals would stop killing people?

LordRaeth's Avatar


LordRaeth
05.11.2012 , 01:47 AM | #109
It still results in the murder of the creatures, still not the way I would of thought the Jedi would handle it.

CorwinCorey's Avatar


CorwinCorey
05.11.2012 , 03:03 AM | #110
...thats how we handle it now... if animal populations get out of hand, they need to be cut back, for the stability of the whole...

wolf populations, if they get too high, will do a real number on things like small fauna in an area. rabbits, mice, squirrels etc... and then very suddenly, have NO foodsource. Starvation on a wide scale, followed by a MASSIVE population explosion of small creatures that they fed on, resulting in crop ruination in nearby settlements etc.

Top tier predators sometimes do need to be managed, in exactly that manner. Seeing it as an emotional moment, instead of seeing the whole... well, that wouldn't be according to the code.