Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Jedi Hypocrisy as Displayed on Tython

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Jedi Hypocrisy as Displayed on Tython

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
05.08.2012 , 08:47 PM | #91
Firefox malfunction in posting. See below.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
05.08.2012 , 09:32 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
So a thief or a murderer or a warlord should never be brought to justice unless they personally attack a Jedi first? The Sith Warrior is already pursing a dangerous agenda by hunting a young Padawan with orders to murder her. Darth Barras is already attacking the Jedi Order and the Sith Warrior is the instrument by which he does so.

I'm still on Tatooine with my Bounty Hunter character.
Ok, let's play Space Cops with the Jedi. They ARE, in fact, Republic Space Cops, Military Commanders, and Diplomats, when broken down into their basic roles. Now, does a cop draw down on a dangerous criminal?
Yes.
Does a cop draw down, place his finger on the trigger with intent to fire on a calm citizen who has made no move towards his weapon and has every right to be standing there?
Good cops don't. Igniting a lightsaber is the Jedi equivalent of placing finger on trigger with intent to fire.

Tatooine and Alderaan at the time of TOR were not in the Galactic Republic. There goes the Jedi's jurisdiction right there. They had no authority as peace officers to physically intervene in the Alderaanian Civil War, making them in effect criminals by their own definition. Also, since it was NOT a time of declared war, they had no business being there in a military capacity.

Now, IF the Jedi had only been on Alderaan as diplomats and advisors, that would be different. Their other main role in the Republic is in the Diplomatic corps. But sending Jedi strike teams against Thul and Ulgo targets violated the Jedi charter. Just because the Republic looked the other way, didn't make it right. Not only did they go against their Republiic charter by interfering on a neutral world that had seceded from the Republic, but they also violated THEIR OWN code of ethics by doing so and taking a side in the civil war on a neutral planet.

Having grown up during the last couple decades of the RL Cold War, I can state that Incidents Happen. The problem is, this is Star Wars, and the Jedi are supposed to be held to a higher standard. They hold themselves to a higher standard, in fact.

To say the Jedi AREN'T hypocrites is just not possible under those circumstances.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
05.08.2012 , 09:34 PM | #93
Well actually Capt, don't think no one ever said "A lightsaber is for defense, never for attack"...I recall Yoda saying

"A jedi uses The Force, for knowledge and defense never for attack."

Just to be clear. Which makes sense that he didn't say lightsaber, since a lightsaber to a jedi/sith should be nothing more then a tool. The Force is a jedi/sith's true weapon.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
05.08.2012 , 10:22 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Well actually Capt, don't think no one ever said "A lightsaber is for defense, never for attack"...I recall Yoda saying

"A jedi uses The Force, for knowledge and defense never for attack."

Just to be clear. Which makes sense that he didn't say lightsaber, since a lightsaber to a jedi/sith should be nothing more then a tool. The Force is a jedi/sith's true weapon.
Thanks. Long day at work. I sorta figured I had that one wrong, but didn't feel like looking it up. lol
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
05.08.2012 , 10:25 PM | #95
Here are some quotes that may help show that even though some tend to do things wrong it is not 95% of the jedi. Jedi make mistakes, we all do. The jedi that says he or she never makes a mistake is the one I would run far away from.

Deliver more than you promise. The best way to be always certain of this is to deliver much, even when you promise nothing." ―Tho-Mes Drei


"When a Jedi behaves badly in public, an observer might think, 'If this Jedi is a representative of the whole Order, then plainly no Jedi is worth respect.' On meeting a second Jedi, who behaves better than the first, that same person might think, 'Does this say that half the Jedi are good, and half bad?' On meeting a third Jedi, who behaves as well as the second, the person thinks, 'Was the first Jedi an exception, then?' In this way, only by the good behavior of several Jedi can the public be certain that the poor behavior of one Jedi was unusual. Thus, it takes many Jedi to undo the mistakes of one." ―Odan-Urr


"Learn to recognize when speed is not important. Race when being first is important; move at your own pace at all other times. It is not necessary to always strike the first blow, to provide the first solution, or to reach a goal before anyone else does. In fact, it is sometimes vital to strike the last blow, to give the final answer, or to arrive after everyone else." ―Wiwa


"Do not see a lightsaber duel as a choice between winning and losing. Every duel can have many, many outcomes. When you concentrate solely on winning—in lightsaber duels as in everything else—you sully your victory. Winning becomes worse than losing. It is better to lose than to win badly. And it is always better to end a duel peacefully than to win or lose" ―Rekpa De

"Overconfident thinking is flawed because the Jedi does not take all possibilities into account. He may understand the task at hand, the support of his fellows, and the ramifications of his success, and he may have even planned for unanticipated factors—but he has failed to understand his own capabilities. He has planned only for success, because he has concluded that there can be no failure. Every Jedi, in every task, should prepare for the possibility of failure." ―Vodo-Siosk Baas


"The acceptance of others is not a guarantee. Like everyone else, a Jedi is accepted or not based on his behavior. The Jedi who believes that he is more important than others only demonstrates that his opinion is to be ignored." ―Dooku


"Jedi refer to the ‘light side’ and the ‘dark side’, but really, these are only words, and the Force is beyond words. It is not evil, just as it isn’t good—it's simply what it is." ―Barriss Offee

"Be careful—don't assume a teacher is always right, without question. You have to think for yourself. Sometimes we teachers make mistakes, too. But in this case, I am right: You're not yet ready for a lightsaber." ―Luke Skywalker
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Guild Roleplays: http://republicexplorerscorp.enjin.com/activity
Referral Link: http://www.swtor.com/r/vLlZlR

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
05.08.2012 , 10:27 PM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Thanks. Long day at work. I sorta figured I had that one wrong, but didn't feel like looking it up. lol
To be fair you may have been thinking about this quote (not saying I agree lol)


"Remember, a Jedi fights only as a last resort. If you are forced to draw your lightsaber, you have already forfeited much of your advantage. A Jedi trusts the Force and at first seeks other ways to resolve problems: patience, logic, tolerance, attentive listening, negotiation, persuasion, calming techniques. But there are times when a Jedi must fight. Knowing that the Shadow Academy is out there, I fear those times will come all too often for us. And so you must learn how to wield your lightsabers."

Luke said this.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Guild Roleplays: http://republicexplorerscorp.enjin.com/activity
Referral Link: http://www.swtor.com/r/vLlZlR

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
05.08.2012 , 10:36 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by ScarletBlaze View Post
To be fair you may have been thinking about this quote (not saying I agree lol)


"Remember, a Jedi fights only as a last resort. If you are forced to draw your lightsaber, you have already forfeited much of your advantage. A Jedi trusts the Force and at first seeks other ways to resolve problems: patience, logic, tolerance, attentive listening, negotiation, persuasion, calming techniques. But there are times when a Jedi must fight. Knowing that the Shadow Academy is out there, I fear those times will come all too often for us. And so you must learn how to wield your lightsabers."

Luke said this.
Actually, I was thinking about the quote on the Force itself.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
05.09.2012 , 07:19 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Ok, let's play Space Cops with the Jedi. They ARE, in fact, Republic Space Cops, Military Commanders, and Diplomats, when broken down into their basic roles.
I would say the Jedi are, well, Knights. Knights who swore loyalty to the Republic. I can take a paragraph from the Wikipedia article "Knight" and change a few words so it fits the Jedi:

"Jedi were asked to "Protect the weak, defenseless, helpless, and fight for the general welfare of all." These few guidelines were the main duties of a Jedi knight, but they were very hard to accomplish fully. Knights trained in meditating, fighting, and diplomacy, amongst other things. They were also trained to practise honorable behaviour, which was considered extremely important. The Jedi code was the main principle guiding a Jedi’s life style. It influenced three main areas: the military, diplomacy, and the use of the Force."

Okay, so the whole "no attachments"/"no emotion" thing makes them a monastic order, but there were monastic orders in history too.

What I want to say: The Jedi have their code and their principles, but they also serve the republic. And if the republic wants to intervene in a civil war, the Jedi will be there and fight.
Btw legally, the republic has every right to intervene on a neutral world if someone (the Organas, Anchorhead, ...) asks for their help.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
05.09.2012 , 08:29 AM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
What I want to say: The Jedi have their code and their principles, but they also serve the republic. And if the republic wants to intervene in a civil war, the Jedi will be there and fight.
Btw legally, the republic has every right to intervene on a neutral world if someone (the Organas, Anchorhead, ...) asks for their help.
But here's where it gets slippery. Were the Organas in charge? Not quite. The Ulgos were in charge at that point, but the Republic physically interfered on a sovereign planet in a state of civil war. I can think of a few RL examples of how this would be seen is improper and outright illegal, but I will refrain as we're supposed to keep RL examples out of these discussions.

But from what I've seen, the Republic is the "Free World" in the Star Wars Universe, and they're supposed to keep everything on the level. It's what sets them apart from the Empire.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
05.09.2012 , 08:44 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
But here's where it gets slippery. Were the Organas in charge? Not quite. The Ulgos were in charge at that point, but the Republic physically interfered on a sovereign planet in a state of civil war. I can think of a few RL examples of how this would be seen is improper and outright illegal, but I will refrain as we're supposed to keep RL examples out of these discussions.

But from what I've seen, the Republic is the "Free World" in the Star Wars Universe, and they're supposed to keep everything on the level. It's what sets them apart from the Empire.
The Organas weren't in charge. But the Ulgo's weren't in charge either, even if they claimed it. It was a civil war. And one party in the civil war asked the republic for help.

In RL we would have the United Nations to decide if it is legal or illegal. But before they existed it was quite normal to interfere in a civil war if one side asked for your help. There are no United Space Factions in Star Wars.

Maybe we differ in our RL opinion here, but helping one side in a civil war doesn't seem bad to me. Especially if the alternative is leaving the planet for to the Empire.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall