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Assassin deception pve dps needs big buff

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Assassin deception pve dps needs big buff

pureeffinmetal's Avatar


pureeffinmetal
05.01.2012 , 03:32 AM | #21
I hate to break it to you, but EVERY class has a tree that sucks. Luckily mostly classes also have a tree that is great. If you don't like that tree I suggest you reroll.

Concealment Operatives are just as gimped Deception Assassins at the moment. And yet if they respecc Lethality just ike an Assassin can specc Madness, they get a huge boost in damage in PVE.

One could argue that both Concealment and Deception are far better for PVP however.

As for the Marauders you keep trying to compare yourself too, even they suffer from this. Carnage has excellent burst and utility for PVP but is significantly lower on PVE DPS than Annihilation.

Tell me again, which specc are the marauders that are beating you so bad running?

I could keep going on and on, listing examples such as the Advanced Prototype tree for Powertechs or the Engineering Tree for Snipers.

The fact of the matter is every class has trees that are suited for different roles. So if you want to do more damage, specc into your best damage tree, just like everyone else is. If you don't like that tree, then don't play it, but don't complain that you can't do enough DPS if you aren't even speccing into your best option at it.
Fallschirmjager
Lightning Sorcerer
<Rapture>
The Shadowlands (Formerly Shadow Hand)

Exiled-Phoenix's Avatar


Exiled-Phoenix
05.01.2012 , 04:53 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Sybx View Post
It's not like Madness is difficult to play either. The only benefits Deception have over Madness is:
1) They don't use DoTs, so they are able to vanish and OOC rez immediately. Madness has to wait for DoTs to fall off.
2) They have shiny abilities. C'mon, Voltaic Slash looks awesome. :P

Madness has overall higher DPS throughput even when switching targets and movement situations but doesn't have the burst of Deception. I am usually top 3 in my 16 man raid group along with our Powertech DPS and Lethality Sniper while being responsible for calling out mechanics, performing mechanics, interrupting, and nerdraging at melee who stand in stuff.

In regards to defensive cooldowns and damage reduction abilities, Madness has nice health return and quite a bit of passive damage mitigation through talents (Sith Defiance, Corrupted Flesh, Parasitism). Plus we're still able to use Force Shroud. Deflection is useless whether you're Madness or Deception because it only increases defenses (which we have zero aside from base) rather than provide damage reduction.

I'd like to see an overall AoE damage buff. :] Make Lacerate not terrible!


TL;DR - Roll Madness and be worshipped for your amazing DPS. <3
I tried to play madness, its fun i'll give u that, and usefull.
Ranged attacks, self heal, i like it.
But i cant play it aswell as i play deception.
I have to watch my own procs and keep an eye on Dots.

Its probably just something i need to relearn but i dont want too.

@the guy defending marauders, all your arguments are invalid.
They are just as versatile as any other spec.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pinkspawn View Post
When you get about 850 power like some people I know, you won't be complaining(as much) about how bad it is.
I hope you meant 1850 willpower...
I have 1748 willpower atm.

Blyter's Avatar


Blyter
05.01.2012 , 06:45 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Citywok View Post
So your answer to the melee dps spec of assassin not being viable is to forget it and stop complaining and switch to the shared tree? Right....
Just because it shares the same name as the Sorc variant and has similar abilities, does not remove the fact it's a melee based spec when you pick Assassin. It requires melee range, just as much as Deception does.

Deception is not the only melee spec, and nowhere does it state anywhere "Deception is the primary melee pve dps spec for assassin." You just want it to be, but it's not the case.

Every spec has it's uses encounter by encounter, but if your looking for overall highest DPS output, Madness is the best.

Also to the guy that said about 5%. Marauders/Snipers pull 1900.. most other classes are sitting at 1800 raid buffed, that's pretty close to your 5% margin. Just sayin.

Quote: Originally Posted by Citywok View Post
Madness is not this huge DPS buff like you seem to think it is.
This comes down to you not being able to play the spec, all theorycrafing and evidence shows to the contrary that Madness is some 100+ DPS higher then Deception. Keep failing though, maybe if you shed enough tears Bioware will make the easiest spec to play the highest DPS for you.
Captain Blyter
A Special Snowflake
The Harbinger

PolakToma's Avatar


PolakToma
05.01.2012 , 01:00 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Citywok View Post
So your answer to the melee dps spec of assassin not being viable is to forget it and stop complaining and switch to the shared tree? Right....

Deception is meant to be the primary melee DPS spec no matter what you say. Madness is not this huge DPS buff like you seem to think it is. The DPS numbers end up being about the same. From the beginning Assassin was supposed to be a high dps burst spec, low armor class. Both of you are wrong when you say that Madness is the proper DPS spec because numbers are about the same. Bioware failed to deliver on what this class was supposed to be. Don't sit here and tell me that Marauders are supposed to do double the DPS I am. You don't think the multiple sins in my guild have tested madness?
I don't think you've tested the meters because both of you are flat out wrong. I don't care how big your epeen is, you are not going to do DPS comparable to most other specs. Any well geared sniper, merc, marauder, op, or sorc who actually is really good at their class is going to do a lot more than you.
^What this guy said, Assassin DPS is supposed to be based on Deception the whole class is built around it, they did not intend for a "shared" tree to be the main spec of this class.

Blyter's Avatar


Blyter
05.01.2012 , 02:47 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by PolakToma View Post
^What this guy said, Assassin DPS is supposed to be based on Deception the whole class is built around it, they did not intend for a "shared" tree to be the main spec of this class.
Prove it?

If they built the whole class around one spec, there would only be one spec and not three.

Madness is the highest DPS for both Sorc and Assassin, would seem to me, Madness was intended to be the highest DPS tree.

Stop imposing your wishes as the intention for the class, as it's clearly not the case.
Captain Blyter
A Special Snowflake
The Harbinger

Osirys's Avatar


Osirys
05.01.2012 , 05:44 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Blyter View Post
Prove it?

If they built the whole class around one spec, there would only be one spec and not three.

Madness is the highest DPS for both Sorc and Assassin, would seem to me, Madness was intended to be the highest DPS tree.

Stop imposing your wishes as the intention for the class, as it's clearly not the case.
I understand what he is saying, but when you reply that "madness seems to be the intended DPS tree because it does the most DPS" only reinforces the fact that Deception needs a buff to be comparable to Madness. Additionally, by your own logic, why have a Deception tree if Madness is the DPS tree?

In the end you're both full of fail for arguing about it.

Blyter's Avatar


Blyter
05.01.2012 , 06:02 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Osirys View Post
I understand what he is saying, but when you reply that "madness seems to be the intended DPS tree because it does the most DPS" only reinforces the fact that Deception needs a buff to be comparable to Madness. Additionally, by your own logic, why have a Deception tree if Madness is the DPS tree?

In the end you're both full of fail for arguing about it.
Deception is tuned perfectly for PvP in the way it operates around high burst DPS.

However, there is a number of PvE fights favorable to high burst DPS specs like Deception. Fabricator, SOA, Tanks in EC, Kephess Bombers.

You cannot increase Deceptions damage, without causing issues in PvP with Deceptions turning into Pre-Nerf Operatives.
Captain Blyter
A Special Snowflake
The Harbinger

Jibakurai's Avatar


Jibakurai
05.01.2012 , 11:14 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Blyter View Post
Deception is tuned perfectly for PvP in the way it operates around high burst DPS.

However, there is a number of PvE fights favorable to high burst DPS specs like Deception. Fabricator, SOA, Tanks in EC, Kephess Bombers.

You cannot increase Deceptions damage, without causing issues in PvP with Deceptions turning into Pre-Nerf Operatives.
I agree totally. I've been reading and reading all these posts about burst dps and DoTs and blah blah blah and no one has clarified it as simply as this. Burst Damage was never intended in any game to be top DPS for long fights and DoTs are near pointless in short BURST fights. So spec around what you plan to do in the game and change up as needed.

Akyrashadowen's Avatar


Akyrashadowen
05.02.2012 , 02:22 AM | #29
I've had a similar problem with keeping my dps close to our marauder. Depending on movement of a fight I can usually do between 1300-1500 dps as deception. I've noticed that our dps problem lies in a balance between our stats. Unlike most of the other class our damage is heavily relied on melee damage. If your not heavy critting as deception there something wrong and its in our stats. As deception the less accuracy I have from 100% the less damage I do. Currently I sit at 75% surge rating 37% crit and 99% acc/ 450 power.

We can hit for 1500-2100 normal hits for voltaic and maul non crit. Our damage comes from our proc based crits.
On normal mobs I crit from 6-8k on bosses to where they gain 10% defense its 5.8k max. I have done some testing but the more acc I put on after 97% have upped my dps. On burst I can do 2k dps for first part of the fight but after that it drops to 1.3k. I'm doing some more testing on the acc to remove the bosses 10% defense buff and seeing if I can sustain a dps of 1.7-1.9k which is what a full rakata/blackhole geared player should be at.

I've tried maddness just isn't my cup of tea I love all that deception has to offer and who doesn't love seeing those big crits

If any deception assassin have done something similar I'd like to see your feed back on this.

Akyrashadowen's Avatar


Akyrashadowen
05.02.2012 , 04:07 PM | #30
Bump^