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Dear Expertise, You Are Terrible

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Dear Expertise, You Are Terrible

Dekai's Avatar


Dekai
04.30.2012 , 09:51 PM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by Altruismo View Post
When you give both sides equal gear you get into the territory of side A or side B being upset that the "other side" has percieved or real easier access to the same gear.

"Wah!! Why should soloqueue PVP guy be allowed to lose his way to the Facemelt Raygun!?!? no fair!!"
"Wah!! It takes 3977 hours of PVP to grind a Facemelt Raygun, and those PVEers only have to kill one boss (with a 0.2% droprate) to get one!!!"

Get it?
Get your logic out of here. There's no place for it in forums, let alone one pertaining to PvP! Such Blasphemy!

In case someone doesn't sense the heavy sarcasm, this person just very humorously stated how the game is designed. Bioware, intentionally is separating PvP and PvE. This was the design goal, expertise enforces making PvE gear Sub-optimal in PvP, and with PvP gear having it's Primary stats significantly reduced into Expertise, so sub-optimal in PvE.

And I certainly hope someone doesn't come back with "Ya, but my BM gear works fine for Ops!" Rakata, Battlemasters PvE twin, would be far superior.
(≧∇≦)(´・ω・`)( ゚ Д゚) Powertech/Operative (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)

Aussiedroid's Avatar


Aussiedroid
04.30.2012 , 09:56 PM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
I support expertise because I all I do is PvP. It would be extremely unfair if HM raiders had the best gear while PvPers got the short end of the stick.
Yeah we don't want to make it unfair for PVP'ers and just change balance to favor PVE'ers .. that would only happen if they removed Expertise and did nothing else to rebalance.

I still think PVP should have an advantage if they have grinded the better gear, but this margin should be smaller so PVE players can still compete.

If they removed Expertise, and rebalanced the items you can get then concerns like this would be negated.

Both PVP and PVE would have gear progression but both could compete in either game arena to equal extent.

Different gear would still come from PVP, that may give equal level but different stat combos so would still have advantages to grind both paths if you wanted and not allow either to be used to fast track you to the top of the tree so to speak.
... No, I'm not the droid your looking for!

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
04.30.2012 , 10:00 PM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by Aussiedroid View Post
Yeah we don't want to make it unfair for PVP'ers and just change balance to favor PVE'ers .. that would only happen if they removed Expertise and did nothing else to rebalance.

I still think PVP should have an advantage if they have grinded the better gear, but this margin should be smaller so PVE players can still compete.

If they removed Expertise, and rebalanced the items you can get then concerns like this would be negated.

Both PVP and PVE would have gear progression but both could compete in either game arena to equal extent.

Different gear would still come from PVP, that may give equal level but different stat combos so would still have advantages to grind both paths if you wanted and not allow either to be used to fast track you to the top of the tree so to speak.
If you remove expertise then someone who grinds PvE can waltz right into PvP. Personally, I don't like that. Just like I can't walk right into PvE.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

Aussiedroid's Avatar


Aussiedroid
04.30.2012 , 10:20 PM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
If you remove expertise then someone who grinds PvE can waltz right into PvP. Personally, I don't like that. Just like I can't walk right into PvE.
With current gear setup I would have to disagree.

You can simply buy the Recruit set and do Heroic FPs successfully .. so essentially just walk into PVE and start near the top. If you are skilled you could probabily do Storymode OPs in the same gear!

Right now, even in some Heroic FP gear on in a PVP match you are pretty much useless against anyone with PVP Expertise gear.

If PVE player does put in time in grinding for gear, it should be viable for both. Likewise, those that grind PVP gear should also have the ability to be viable for both. Neither character progress should have such a distinct advantage as PVP gear has right now. This bias needs to be removed and balanced back out so you as a PVPer are not screwed over yet also those that are mainly PVEers are not either.
... No, I'm not the droid your looking for!

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
04.30.2012 , 10:22 PM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by Aussiedroid View Post
With current gear setup I would have to disagree.

You can simply buy the Recruit set and do Heroic FPs successfully .. so essentially just walk into PVE and start near the top. If you are skilled you could probabily do Storymode OPs in the same gear!

Right now, even in some Heroic FP gear on in a PVP match you are pretty much useless against anyone with PVP Expertise gear.

If PVE player does put in time in grinding for gear, it should be viable for both. Likewise, those that grind PVP gear should also have the ability to be viable for both. Neither character progress should have such a distinct advantage as PVP gear has right now. This bias needs to be removed and balanced back out so you as a PVPer are not screwed over yet also those that are mainly PVEers are not either.
I disagree. And what I haven't been telling you is that I DO play both. I carry 2 sets of gear for two different games.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

shinzodourden's Avatar


shinzodourden
04.30.2012 , 10:35 PM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by Azrienov View Post
I was fine with expertise the way it was before 1.2. If you want PvE content to be cleared with PvE gear, then give it a stat on par with expertise. Call it "Stat to help clear PvE content." Scale it exactly as if it were pre-1.2 expertise. PvP gear should offer an edge, sure, but not a massive lol edge. I mean when you have to stack 1000 expertise to be good in pvp, I'd say that someone went overboard in designing.

After you include the new PvE stat, scale the pvp armor stats up to match their tier pve counterpart. Shazam. You have two equally good pieces of armor that can be used anywhere. They have their own set bonuses so you can mix and match. Oh, and each gives a slight edge in their own realm of designation. However, a player can now clear PvE content and enjoy PvP content in the same gear.

This is a logical solution, and therefore must be ignored because of all the work that would go into scaling the PvE content to take "Stat to help clear PvE content" into account in the fights. The good news is this: Star Wars will kill itself under its own inertia, and be free to play soon enough :O
This guys got the right idea.

There should be a stat called "Adventurer" or "Hardiness" or "Fame" maybe "Indiana Jones" that increases the damage you do and reduces the damage you take from PvE content.

That or make Expertise and/or PvP gear have severe penalties against mobs.

Aussiedroid's Avatar


Aussiedroid
04.30.2012 , 10:38 PM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
I disagree. And what I haven't been telling you is that I DO play both. I carry 2 sets of gear for two different games.
We might have to agree to disagree ... lol

I did assume you do both as most players do anyways, although each may prefer one over the other.

I am sure PVE gear will offer better performance in FP/OPs, but was just pointing out its not really needed as it is possible to complete these with PVP gear. Its not the case the other way around though from my experience.

I have both sets too, but last few runs I havent bothered to change back to PVE since we are finding it easy enough to get through the instance. When we move to Hard mode OPs that may be a different kettle of fish
... No, I'm not the droid your looking for!

The_Bucket's Avatar


The_Bucket
04.30.2012 , 10:48 PM | #158
So all that defense, and armor I have means nothing for my Guardian without expertise?
Bucket
Blitz
1655 54-16 4 D/C's

Mookind's Avatar


Mookind
04.30.2012 , 10:49 PM | #159
If you don't think expertise should be in the game

Go look in the mirror and shoot the first thing you see.

Grinding for PvP gear takes literally no skill at the moment. The highest tier is available to every1 with the time to farm for it. And even if it did take skill to acquire would you really want people rolling you in campaign gear?

PvE and PvP are two separate entities. Mix em up and your going to lose a gear set. And wipe away any incentive to raid. Because it is again, 1000x easier to farm pvp gear.

Mookind's Avatar


Mookind
04.30.2012 , 10:53 PM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by The_Bucket View Post
So all that defense, and armor I have means nothing for my Guardian without expertise?
Go in full rakata against a sin in war hero.

Expertise works, maybe not as intended.

But war hero>campaign in WZs