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Arsenal talent Barrage doesn't work

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Arsenal talent Barrage doesn't work
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acnoj's Avatar


acnoj
04.28.2012 , 06:39 AM | #1
I noticed my Unload damage on paper was a fair way ahead of what I was seeing in the logs. While investigating I noticed that the Barrage buff disappears when I cast Unload, where it used to persist until the end of the channel. So I did some testing and pinned down the problem: Barrage doesn't work.

Here's the test:
1) Removed all gear except for my level 1 starting blaster (which I saved for testing stuff!)
2) Removed all buffs except for High Velocity Gas Cylidar
3) Fired Tracer Missle 3 times at the Operations target dummy (for a consistant stack of the armor debuff)
4) Checked to see if I had Barrage then fired Unload
5) Used the MOX combat log reader to total up the damage of Unload
6) Repeated 20 times with Barrage, and 20 times without it

Here's the results:
With Barrage
864, 858, 952, 818, 887, 824, 789, 816, 781, 821, 851, 755, 817, 816, 825, 949, 788, 818, 819, 782
average 831.5

Without Barrrage
787, 814, 776, 848, 853, 851, 913, 852, 860, 819, 817, 888, 814, 857, 789, 946, 851, 817, 957, 924
average 851.65

Conclusion:
The fact that the damage with Barrage averaged out as LESS than the damage without is pretty telling. Also I got a lower minimum with Barrage than without, and a higher maximum without Barrage than with. So if anything, Barrage procs have reduced my damage (although I suspect that's just randomness at play, and that Barrage is doing nothing).
A.K.A Freehugs (mmo-mechanics forums), Aid (Dalbora server)
Drawn and Dangerous, a D&D webcomic

Gannar's Avatar


Gannar
04.28.2012 , 11:39 AM | #2
Wow, if this is true... We'll need more testing, but this'd be absurd if it turns out that another key aspect of the Arsenal spec has been destroyed. I feel like Mercs are slowly being bled out by BioWare.
Camila

SWG - Flurry
BH/Smug/Spy

Exzileforgotten's Avatar


Exzileforgotten
04.28.2012 , 12:01 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Gannar View Post
Wow, if this is true... We'll need more testing, but this'd be absurd if it turns out that another key aspect of the Arsenal spec has been destroyed. I feel like Mercs are slowly being bled out by BioWare.
I would love to see more testing being done. Lets get a definitive answer. I just cant imagine BW would maliciously destroy a class. That is just a childish way to view it imo. Sure it could be true ~ But come on they are a company out to steal your money.

Axien's Avatar


Axien
04.28.2012 , 04:55 PM | #4
You've raised something here I've been suspecting myself for a while. Glad someone has taken the time to test and post about it. Bugs like this are often difficult to detect and I'm sure the devs will appreciate a mass of control data they can use to help confirm and troubleshoot the problem if it exists.

So test parameters ?:
1) Get yourself a couple of lowbie blasters (the less stats the better)
2) Get nekkid and remove all buffs except high velocity gas cylinder
3) Ensure a full stack of Tracers
4) Document Unload damage 20x with Barrage procced and 20 times without

I'm sure if enough of us can correlate our data, we can get to the bottom of this

The_Duck's Avatar


The_Duck
04.28.2012 , 06:32 PM | #5
very nice.
I thought the tracer armor debuff didn't work anyways so no need to add 3 but why not eh?
eliminate any other random aspect.
- The Duck

The_Duck's Avatar


The_Duck
04.28.2012 , 06:53 PM | #6
(corrected math to represent 25% damage from barrage)

this is actually VERY easy to test.
let's take an example ...
my HIGH end damage on Unload = ~1500
my crit damage modifier = 77%
this means a high crit on Unload = ~ 2655 (1500 * 1.77)
now, if Barrage actually worked then my high crit WITH barrage would be:
1: 2655 * 1.25 = 3318

ANYWAYS, if this actually worked, then I would expect to see in my MANY MANY combat logs a FEW hits where I
did a HIGH crit during unload (AKA - a hit over 3000)

NEVER do I see this (just reviewed a TON of logs against bosses and trash)
My max hit is always right around the non-barrage crit number (~2655 with some DR thrown in so ~2400)

This is pretty sad assuming this basic math is correct.
You would expect to see in over 300 Unload attacks at least ONE +3000 hit ...

PLUS, to get BARRAGE you are actually DEBUFFING the mob at the same time AND you have a debuff stance ...
Makes me think NOTHING is working.
- The Duck

Athrins's Avatar


Athrins
04.28.2012 , 10:44 PM | #7
lol. Soo... basically none of the vital talents/mechanics of our Arsenal tree are actually working?

That's funny, because that would mean Mercs are not only gimped, but completely nonviable in any competitive sense.

It's not actually funny.
Lord Calypho [EU]
The Athrins Legacy
Altoholic...

sensiblepoast's Avatar


sensiblepoast
04.29.2012 , 03:19 AM | #8
I bet they state it's a tooltip issue.

This is going to turn into Mythic patch land pretty soon, you'll see.

Axien's Avatar


Axien
04.29.2012 , 03:21 AM | #9
I too went through my combat logs today (as I'm currently specced pyro). I checked two logs:
- the first questing during the Rakghoul event on various mobs
- the second during a HM DC raid covering several attempts where I was only dpsing Toth

It's clear that Barrage isn't working as simply as the tool tip states. Whether it's working as intended is, of course, debatable.

I'll ignore the first log as there's too many different variables across the various targets to glean much useful data, however a few hours spent solidly on Toth shows the average unload without Barrage totals 4112 damage and with barrage 4322. It's not a 25% difference by a long shot. However it's worth noting that Unload with Barrage is calculated from much much larger sample size (as you expect in a raid log).

A few interesting things I noted:
- off-hand shots hit for so little (70-150) that the 25% increase is indistinguishable within the normal range of hits
- Barrage often ends in the middle of unload
- Unload when Barrage hasn't activated often results in "Event Failed"
- When analysing individual shots of Unload an increase does *seem* to apply to normal shots, however it's difficult to tell within the range and it's not likely to be a 25% increase. This is much more noticable when comparing critical shots.

I will follow acnojs testing regime tomorrow when I spec back to Arsenal and post results.

Arthug's Avatar


Arthug
04.29.2012 , 06:33 AM | #10
stripped naked with a custom blaster no barrels/mods/enhancements in it. all of this is done with 5 stacks of heat signature on op dummy with High velocity gas cylinder

http://www.torparse.com/a/21154

Fight 1 unload with Barrage
Fight 2 (ignore messed up)
Fight 3 Unload without barrage proc

damage was almost identical
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