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PVP 10-49 vs lvl 50 + Expertise


Wraithclaw

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I for 1 love the 10-49 pvp. You can come in with poor gear and less tools at say 14 and do very well vs players all the way up to level 49. the balancing system seems good and generally I've had nothing but tons of fun in these WZ's. However, I recently hit lvl 50 on my juggernaut and now it's not very fun. Its now just a grind to get expertise gear so that I may again enjoy playing pvp. I have read people saying that it is balanced as everyone will be in BM gear and the expertise will balance out, however in reality that is far from the truth as any new 50 will be struggling to hold their own. Even with full recruit gear to start out it seems a long way up to the 1200+ expertise most players seem to be sporting. My own opinion is that I would rather have seen cool set bonuses specially focused on pvp that would give very solid bonuses to players in pvp vs using them in pve environment rather than incorporating the expertise system. Would have been cool to have armorings, mods, enhancments that applied these bonuses so that we could place them in the new Orange pvp schematics .. that dont seem to offer and set bonuses from pvp.... basically pvp shells?

 

I don't want to make a big argument for or against expertise gear.. although I am currently more against than for.

I am mainly wondering if anyone else feels the same... that 10-49 pvp seems much more fun?

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A :=damage increase via Expertise

B:=damage reduction via Expertise

 

(1+A/100)*(1-B/100)=1

 

Then why have it?

 

I don't want my pvp and pve game segregated. I want to play both and not worry about what set of gear I"m wearing. Imagine Han Solo running down the ramp of his ship and then stopping and saying 'oh wait, I need to get my PVP set on'.

 

The theory is that this will prevent a player from raiding out to top gear and then joining a WZ and facerolling everyone. Well that's nonsense if everyone is doing what they enjoy-- if he put in 8 hours of gametime so has everyone else. And what difference does it make if those 8 hours were raiding and not PVP'ing? Why should that player be punished for playing the game the way they enjoy playing it? Vice versa too, if I play 8 hours getting good gear through PVP why must I be punished for only raiding now and then? It's an artificial way to get people to invest time in a game and in turn, makes people want to play less.

 

It's a self-defeating proposition.

 

SWG had a simple system-- all the gear was the same, and PVP damage was simply reduced by 50% to slow instakilling down. Also, there was no PVP badge system, you simply had a PVP rating. The more you killed without dying, the higher the rating. Getting killed cost you more rating points than killing, especially as you moved up- thus a high ranking meant you were a pretty lethal player.

 

Later on, ranks were introduced based on a total kills and you got some buffs and gear-- it went downhill from there.

 

The more you make PVP about gear rather than skill the more you ruin PVP.

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Because they don't want PvE players to come and PvP with PvE gear.

 

Why the hell not?

 

Why make those games exclusive? Game time invested should be the barometer not doing something the way the developer wants it to go. Gameplay should be more varied than hamsters on a wheel for the next purple item.

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Why the hell not?

 

Why make those games exclusive? Game time invested should be the barometer not doing something the way the developer wants it to go. Gameplay should be more varied than hamsters on a wheel for the next purple item.

 

1) Developers want have two content streams that require separate commitments of time and effort. Each released tier of gear produces double the potential amount of time a player will play if they want to be active in both.

2) As I mentioned in the other thread, it is substantially easier to balance PVP when you are only focusing on a few gear possibilities per class. It is harder to min/max PVP gear in 1.2, due to the cost of the gear to obtain new enhancements.

3) PVP gear has lower main stat itemization, which reduces in dramatically lower DPS, while HP numbers are around the same. PVE gear focuses on DPS in order to create tangible differences in PVE content due to enrage timers. If you pitted two players with PVE Campaign gear min/maxed against each other, they would blow each other up significantly faster than two players with PVP War Hero Gear.

4) With the above said, PVP gear is easier to maintain at a lower stat curve since it doesn't have to beat Enrage Timers, it needs to work in a vacuum against other PVP gear. PVE stat scaling destroys PVP, if not kept away with a PVP stat.

5) How much PVP is equivalent to PVE progressive raiding? You can't answer that question, because they are both requiring different levels of work and skill. To reward players with the best items to do both through separate progressions will create one way being easier than the other, which will kill off one side of the content.

Edited by KyoMamoru
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Why the hell not?

 

Why make those games exclusive? Game time invested should be the barometer not doing something the way the developer wants it to go. Gameplay should be more varied than hamsters on a wheel for the next purple item.

Because they do not want to FORCE PvP players to go and do PvE, to be good at PvP.

 

For the same reason they do not want to FORCE PvE players to go and do PvP to be good at PvE.

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if a lv 49 can be beaten by a lv 14 he is a very sad sad player. Really what should happen is a lv 49 can be beaten by 2 lv 14s after the level 49 defeated one of them *assuming all players are good*

 

If you squint real hard you may determine: It's kinda like 2 lv 50s in blue gear versing 1 lv 50 with BM gear.

 

the problem with low level pvp is it doesn't really take into account skill points spent especially when you are lv 14 and only spent 5 of them. basically you can't heal, you can't dps and you can't tank while not even having the full attack/utility arsenal of your higher level counterparts.

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Because they do not want to FORCE PvP players to go and do PvE, to be good at PvP.

 

For the same reason they do not want to FORCE PvE players to go and do PvP to be good at PvE.

 

hence expertise was born and I for one am glad for it. My personal PVE experience has been long, tedious and unrewarding(though I don't have much of it since pvp is so fun).

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Personally, I find 50 PvP far better than 10-49 PvP. Maybe it's just my server and faction, but, 10-49 PvP seems to be full of clueless baddies who just want death matches. Teamwork is significantly better and far more frequent in the 50 PvP bracket. 10-49 PvP is full of wannabe Rambos, and illiterates. It was a nice change to actually PvP with people who possessed at least an iota of intelligence.
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Because they do not want to FORCE PvP players to go and do PvE, to be good at PvP.

 

For the same reason they do not want to FORCE PvE players to go and do PvP to be good at PvE.

 

Hardly an argument for expertise. They could of just developed PvE and PvP gear of equal quality requiring roughly equal time to acquire if they didn't want to force PvP and PvE upon those who don't want to. The scenarios you're catering towards would require one set of gear to be better than another.

 

What expertise actually does is essentially divide SWTOR into PvE and PvP. If you want to PvP, you cannot PvE for equips and jump into it, you actually have to PvP. Same thing for PvE, you can't go from being an avid PvPer into a hardcore NM PvE player.

 

As someone who does both PvE and PvP I kinda hate it since it requires me to spend additional time or just give up on 1 form of the game in order to become good at another, but I do see the upsides in that it requires people to have experience in the particular style of play to be able to compete at it at the higher levels (i.e. you won't have someone who has never run FPs suddenly jump into a NM run just because he has the gear to, or conversely you won't have people jumping into pre-mades having never PvPd before just because they have good gear).

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Because they do not want to FORCE PvP players to go and do PvE, to be good at PvP.

 

For the same reason they do not want to FORCE PvE players to go and do PvP to be good at PvE.

 

meh..

 

As a PvP player and a PvE player I am FORCED to do both.

 

Why is it so hard for you so called, self-proclaimed hardcore PvP or Raiders to realize that there are people who can and want to enjoy all aspects and enjoy this content with people you know in RL or trough gaming in general?

Edited by eclipce
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