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Hardmode Denova: Toth & Zorn Bugged

shaundibble's Avatar

05.02.2012 , 02:07 PM | #31
you can see Fearful your body glows/pulsates RED and you can hearing a humming noise. what im getting at is that its the ZORN tank drops dead on the switch/Toth Charge from an unknown dmg ability. 23k HP to 0HP in 1 sec. Tanks can

also this is what fearful is and does

Emboldened – When Toth leaps to Zorn, anyone within 25m of Zorn will be affected with the Fearful debuff, which causes them to take double damage from Zorn’s abilities. Only the Zorn tank should be hit by this.

zorn does not hit that hard the biggest hit from zorn was 5.2k all night fearful or not.

what im more getting at is does anyone know what this unknown abilitiy is 1 shotting the tank

llyy's Avatar

05.02.2012 , 02:47 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by shaundibble View Post
20:55:56.395 Mystified's Static Barrier effect of Static Barrier fades from Anubis.
20:55:56.395 Anubis gains 1 .
20:55:56.395 Zorn's Shriek hits Anubis for 5198 internal damage, causing 5198 threat. (3893 absorbed)
20:55:56.613 Anubis's Crushing Blow effect of Armor Reduced fades from Zorn.
Did your tank hit Zorn with the fearful debuff? If so, he probably killed him self.
Llyy of The Remnant on Vornskr

xenofire's Avatar

05.02.2012 , 02:56 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by llyy View Post
Did your tank hit Zorn with the fearful debuff? If so, he probably killed him self.
This. It will show as unknown since it's self inflicted. When we were learning and our DPS killed themselves, it always showed as unknown.
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
#4 World | #2 US | EC16 HM

shaundibble's Avatar

05.03.2012 , 03:10 AM | #34
well we figured it out yes you were right with fearful. were going to test to confirm tonight but according to our logs our DPS is 25% to high and were switching every 45 seconds instead on 1min (debuff time length) hence why the new zorn tank has fearful.

thanks for your time guys and be careful big PEW PEW is not always good

gpwarner's Avatar

05.03.2012 , 06:26 AM | #35
We tried this for the first time last night on HM and ran into some problems with the Fearful debuff, despite me watching some of the HM vids and reading all of the information I could find. For the record, I don’t think this is “bugged”. I’m sure it’s our positioning, but not sure if it’s the tank positions, the boss positions, the ranged group, or any combination of all of them. The rest of the fight seems fine – just the Fearful debuff is throwing us off.

I understand that the Fearful debuff is a 25m radius from where Toth lands, not where Zorn is positioned. Still, we’re getting the debuff on the ranged group even though they are 28-35m away from Zorn (2 snipers), and Toth is positioned so that when he leaps he shouldn’t be any closer to the ranged group than Zorn is.

I’m hoping someone who’s downed this could answer a couple of questions:
1) Where do you tank the bosses? We have Zorn about half-way down the wall on the left, and Toth over by the cave entrance. This way, when Toth leaps, he’s no closer to the ranged group than Zorn is.
2) Which direction is Zorn facing? We’ve had him towards the wall, but with the tank slightly towards the ranged group so the healer can heal him and still stay > 25m from Zorn. I worry that this might be the problem, if there is any sort of directional component to getting the Fearful debuff (as some have speculated).
3) Where does your ranged group stand? Ours is right on the corner where it opens up on the left side, and always >28m away from Zorn

Thanks much for the help

Demelsa's Avatar

05.03.2012 , 06:46 AM | #36
For having dpser's get fearful:
It is quite simple. Range is only a minor factor. Facing is not. If you are behind Zorn and Toth leaps in perpendicular to the line between you and Zorn then Toth and Zorn will both be facing away from you = no fearful. To simplify further you can generalise it to a 180degree arc in front of Zorn.

The problem we've been having is that the fearful and tank switch seems to be based on a hp percentage whilst the fearful debuff is based on a timer. So if you do enough dps to cause a switch before the fearful debuff from the last switch has expired, then your tank gets insta-gibbed by Zorn when they try to switch.

Edit: My personal favourite is when your dps is so high on Toth that whilst he's berserk you push him to a tank switch before Zorn has targetted anyone with a rock to knock him out of the berserk.

No bugs persay, just bad design.

Lostpenguins's Avatar

05.03.2012 , 10:01 AM | #37
I've heard so many conflicting reports as to the Fearful debuff. I've heard the following statements:
1) Zorn's fearful debuff is actually applied right at Toth's leap, not when Toth lands
2) Zorn's fearful has a frontal cone so that even if you're ~28 meters away from Zorn and he's facing somewhat towards the ranged dps, they can get it
3) The range of the "25 meters radius" is from where Toth lands, not from where Zorn is. So if a ranged dps'er is 28m away, but Toth lands and he's 24m away from the dps'er, they'll get the debuff.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. It's not that big of an issue as we'll have the couple ranged who get it to switch, but it's annoying that we'll tell our range to follow certain guidelines and they'll still get it.

Btw, this is on 16m HM. We're wondering if maybe in 16m the mechanic is "Anyone within 25m, and will apply it to X # of people closest to the boss as well".

Any ideas?

TaelonZ's Avatar

05.05.2012 , 11:25 PM | #38
My raid is having a slightly different, yet similar, problem. Whilst our DPS is not getting the Fearful debuff, it seems the two bosses are swapping at a rate that prevents the fearful debuff from going off of the first tank. This is obviously resulting in either tanks having to tank simply by taunts and eating a larger portion of damage, thus draining our healers too quickly, or the tanks going down in a blaze of fearful glory. The problem I do see with this is that even if it is an over DPS issue we still have not downed the two beasts before hitting the hard enrage timer. (Though we did down one and leave the other at at 3% a few times). So I'm now stuck in a conundrum. Do we Throttle so that the debuff goes away or do we try to out heal the damage?

ragamer's Avatar

05.07.2012 , 04:07 PM | #39
After some carefull meassurings we observed that:

Fearful emanates from the tank in Zorn at the moment Toth initiates the jump (The difference is really 1 second animation... So take it with a pinch of salt). The important info is that it emanates from Zorn's tank not Zorn itself nor the spot were Toth lands... That's why ppl developed the "cone theory", obviously, if you have the tank between Zorn and you (which is basically equal to "Zorn facing you" scenario) and you are meassuring your distance to Zorn... You are eating a few meters (Even more if your tank is at max melee range from Zorn).

EDIT: This is 8men HM "data".

Kihra's Avatar

05.07.2012 , 04:32 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by shaundibble View Post
well we figured it out yes you were right with fearful. were going to test to confirm tonight but according to our logs our DPS is 25% to high and were switching every 45 seconds instead on 1min (debuff time length) hence why the new zorn tank has fearful.

thanks for your time guys and be careful big PEW PEW is not always good
Yeah, we've been running into this in 16-man Hard Mode. You have to stop DPS on the rock phase in order to wait for the Berserk to get removed, so it's not a problem then. On the Ground Shatter phase, though, if your DPS is high you can push too fast and the tank on Toth will still have Fearful when it's time to pick up Zorn.

Your options are to either:
(1) Stop DPS and delay the push (eww)
(2) Have your tank use a CD if the overlap time is pretty small (e.g., a shadow tank's Resilience will protect him completely for maybe 5 seconds).
(3) Just use 3 tanks.

We've decided in 16-man HM at least to just bring 3 tanks. It slows our DPS a bit to do so, and it lets us rotate a tank in who doesn't have Fearful without having to stop DPS.

On 8-man HM I imagine you could do the same thing using a "DPS tank" on Toth.
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