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Hardmode Denova Last Boss - Bug?

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Narcistic's Avatar


Narcistic
05.07.2012 , 05:14 PM | #151
@Xenofire

I understand your comments and your personal opinion towards 8man vs 16man. And you throw heavily around that 16 people are harder to control then 8. You also referenced at one point that 25 man raids in WotLK.

So my question for you.. If 16 mans are so difficult to coordinate and control then would I and many others be considered amazing players because we could coordinate 40 man raids in Vanilla WoW? Or coordinate 15 man Scholomance runs or Living/Undead Strat? UBRS?

That is what Vent/Mumble/TS3 are used for to create a outlet for coordination. That is why I feel that the argument based on "Getting 16 people to play a game is hard" falls short. There are still MMO's that require raid groups of more then 16. If you cannot put together a group of 16 people who play well or try to perfect themselves in their playing ability and min/maxing and or listening it isn't because '16man' is harder. That is your responsibility to field a group of 16 who can listen and coordinate. If you can't field a group of 16 listening players then go down to 8 man because im sure you can field 8 listening players.


I respect your opinion but I think and from what I read a lot of your posts lean on 16 man is harder to coordinate and for some people it probably is but that is their decision to raid with 14 competent players and 2 idiots just to make a 16 man raid.
Pretty Scary

pureeffinmetal's Avatar


pureeffinmetal
05.07.2012 , 05:30 PM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Maltuvion View Post
The bug is extremely forgiving on 16 man though (imo); more likely to have sniper shield(s), more chance of having hybrids able to help out on the healing etc.... more OOC resses.
Our healers find it easier to heal through the damage in 8 than in 16. In 8 we let the whole raid stay in with 1 sniper and were fine. We also ran out on a previous attempt and got through it without anyone dying. (but later wiped due to tank snafu :P)

On 16 we were never able to leave the whole raid in so most of the raid ran to opposite side of the room and LOS'd the pull while our Mercenaries and Tanks stayed in and blew thier defensive CDs, absorb adrenals, etc.
Fallschirmjager
Lightning Sorcerer
<Rapture>
The Shadowlands (Formerly Shadow Hand)

Sotomatic's Avatar


Sotomatic
05.07.2012 , 10:21 PM | #153
Yep bugged for us on 8man HM we even tried to LoS his pull and it still wiped the raid while we were WELL outside of the AoE. We'll try sniper bubble + AoE heals next week. Maybe if we're lucky they'll have it fixed tomorrow, buuuuuuut I doubt it.

xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
05.08.2012 , 02:29 AM | #154
Well... we did 8 man hard mode tonight on live with alts. The only hard part of the instance was Kephiss, and he's only hard cos you still take damage when you get out of the circle. It was still doable in 5 attempts.

16 man is a real ***** on Kephiss, and 8 man is not, and the fights are basically identical damage wise. The damage you take from breath of the masters is exactly the same, but it's way easier to deal with saving 8 people than it is to deal with saving 16 people... I'm sorry, I just can't even close to agree with people that think 8 man is even close in difficulty difference. Two of the alts that did hard mode kephiss in 8 man had zero pieces of campaign or black hole gear, none at all. It's just not hard, it may even be undertuned compared to 16.
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
#4 World | #2 US | EC16 HM

Caeduz's Avatar


Caeduz
05.08.2012 , 02:34 AM | #155
On Kephiss we found that the damage isn't actually cause by the AoE but by the grapple when he drags you in., we've been successfully clearing him on HM by having everyone LoS by the entrance door and the Tank keeping him at the far end bt the container .

One or two still get the grapple effect and start taking damage periodically but the healers should be able to heal through.

xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
05.08.2012 , 03:45 AM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by Caeduz View Post
On Kephiss we found that the damage isn't actually cause by the AoE but by the grapple when he drags you in., we've been successfully clearing him on HM by having everyone LoS by the entrance door and the Tank keeping him at the far end bt the container .

One or two still get the grapple effect and start taking damage periodically but the healers should be able to heal through.
this is considered exploiting as far as the forums are concerned.
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
#4 World | #2 US | EC16 HM

_Zorth_'s Avatar


_Zorth_
05.08.2012 , 04:28 AM | #157
It's been fixed, at least says so in patch notes.. Hopefully they didn't screw up. -.-
The Red Eclipse
Best Player World Wide
..Greedo shot first

Narcistic's Avatar


Narcistic
05.08.2012 , 08:32 AM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by xenofire View Post
Well... we did 8 man hard mode tonight on live with alts. The only hard part of the instance was Kephiss, and he's only hard cos you still take damage when you get out of the circle. It was still doable in 5 attempts.

16 man is a real ***** on Kephiss, and 8 man is not, and the fights are basically identical damage wise. The damage you take from breath of the masters is exactly the same, but it's way easier to deal with saving 8 people than it is to deal with saving 16 people... I'm sorry, I just can't even close to agree with people that think 8 man is even close in difficulty difference. Two of the alts that did hard mode kephiss in 8 man had zero pieces of campaign or black hole gear, none at all. It's just not hard, it may even be undertuned compared to 16.
Fail troll is fail.

We killed it last night as well. As a sorc DPS I had to pop health stim, bubble, rakata medpac and still barely survived (only 20k health). But yeah rough fight and felt good to get it done pre-nerf.
Pretty Scary

Nuadul's Avatar


Nuadul
05.08.2012 , 10:29 AM | #159
Quote: Originally Posted by xenofire View Post

16 man is a real ***** on Kephiss, and 8 man is not, and the fights are basically identical damage wise. The damage you take from breath of the masters is exactly the same, but it's way easier to deal with saving 8 people than it is to deal with saving 16 people... I'm sorry, I just can't even close to agree with people that think 8 man is even close in difficulty difference. Two of the alts that did hard mode kephiss in 8 man had zero pieces of campaign or black hole gear, none at all. It's just not hard, it may even be undertuned compared to 16.
I have to say you stuck your foot in your mouth here. If the damage is exactly the same between the two difficulties, and you have twice the people to heal but also twice the healers to manage the healing it should even out. This in no way lends credibilty to 16 > 8. I might agree with you if you didn't specifically quote dealing with Gift. In that phase everyone should be semi coordinated in where they are going for cover/healing recieved so no variables exist between the two that change anything.

Maltuvion's Avatar


Maltuvion
05.08.2012 , 12:11 PM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by Caeduz View Post
On Kephiss we found that the damage isn't actually cause by the AoE but by the grapple when he drags you in., we've been successfully clearing him on HM by having everyone LoS by the entrance door and the Tank keeping him at the far end bt the container .

One or two still get the grapple effect and start taking damage periodically but the healers should be able to heal through.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS0T4...ature=youtu.be seems to suggest otherwise.

Oh well, they seemingly fixed him in this patch, making him a cakewalk. Gift was the only remotely challenging aspect of the fight.