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Recent FP experience - Report to BW (Directive 7)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Recent FP experience - Report to BW (Directive 7)

Bastilla's Avatar


Bastilla
04.23.2012 , 05:35 AM | #1
Yesterday I grouped with 3 guys targeting FP Directive 7. I was looking forward to experiencing a new unknown flashpoint. So I was really grateful that finally a buddy and me were able to team up with two other guys to take this challenge.

First, I must say, I enjoy playing the smuggler (scoundrel) a lot more than anticipated. I put most spec points to damage dealing, but the option of healing buddies every now and then became an unexpected addon that made the overall smuggler experience really flexible to me. - I truly enjoy playing the smuggler.

Second, though I am not an achiever type of gamer, but more of the casual guys, I don't say everything has to be easy to be enjoyable. If stuff is too easy you start being pampered, and fun does not come from that. - So I do welcome challenges.

Now comes the story of my encounter yesterday at FP Directive 7. Four guys: 3 DDs, and me (90% DD, 10% Healing). We fought our way to the first gang of droid bosses who put us to coma within a matter of 30 seconds. One guy in our group did this before and he mentioned the shield trick. I surfed the internet and the second time we came prepared with two or three more tricks in our sleeves - only to be demolished even quicker. Being slaped in our faces pretty hard we tried to adjust our tactics. To no avail.

So after a while of making no progress at all we abandoned this flashpoint altogether - even though each of us has reached level 50 for some time already. During a little aftermath the guy, who had done this before, claimed, our group hadn't had the right setup, which should take 2 DDs, 1 Tank and 1 fully-fledged healer. (I mentioned right from the start I can supply just a little bit of healing, so no one was mad at me - we discussed things in a rational tone.)

Conclusion: Four guys, excited to play SWTOR and ready to have fun, ended that evening completely frustrated. Instead of cheering over achievements and being totally in awe over a fabulous story experienced, all of us went home a lot earlier shaking our heads in disbelieve. It could have been fun. But the flashpoint is designed to be conquered only with "correct" role setup. The fact it took days to even complete a gang of four adds tremendously to the ridiculous notion behind the design decision of the quest.

Funnily, I never experienced other flashpoints being so restricted and conservative.

A clear thumbs down here, Bioware, for sticking to a rigid formula that hardly makes sense. Things can be tactical, things can be challenging. But this narrow corridor of how to overcome foes is ridiculous and sends players home early and frustrated.
It takes nerves of steel to watch this: The story of stuff (21min) Only the bravest will withstand these vids, the rest won't endure. HOME (90min)

Eddar's Avatar


Eddar
04.23.2012 , 06:24 AM | #2
Hi,
I have to be honest, I'm typing this well aware that there's 60% chance you're just a bad troll and not a new player to the MMO genre. Even so, I'm going to replay hoping you fit in the 40%.

MMO's are a genre, just like FPS, RTS and so on. Genres live on a formula. In FPS you shoot stuff in the face, in RTS you gather resources to shoot stuff in the face and in MMO's you gather with your friends to shoot stuff in the face.

Now, you can't hop into MW3, not knowing what you're doing, in a map you never even seen before and hope to beat every other player in said map. Same thing with RTS, you can't log into Battle.net, hop into a match of SC2 in a map you never seen before and hope to win without gathering resources.

MMO's follow the same patern. You need strategic thinking to overcome the challenges. And the challenges were never made for hibrids (like yourself). The game as a design in mind. It's called the trinity. Tank, Healer and Damage Dealer. Full fledge Tanks are able to soak more damage than a DD. Same thing with full fledge healers, they can heal more that tanks and DPS, and DPS do a lot more DPS than healers and tanks combined.

Now with this in mind, imagine BW designed a flashpoint where you could have 3 DPS and a losely hibrid Healer. They might have a challenge yeah, but the full time tank running with a full time healer and two full time DPSers will never have fun, they will just breaze through.

The fun in MMO's is to run with the right classes with the right roles and beat the challenge designed for you! not to go with a handicap and get free loot. That would be a flaw in design of the genre!

Hope it helped you.
(Yes I am well aware that some MMO's don't follow the trinity, but this one does)

EDIT:
Also keep in mind that some FP's have a target level, and at level 50 target stats. You can't ding 50 and hope into tier 2 Hard Mode content wearing the green you gained at lvl 42.
Not all who look up are searching for gods
Some find confort in being one with the stars!

Bastilla's Avatar


Bastilla
04.23.2012 , 06:39 AM | #3
Hi Eddar.

I admit, if SWTOR is designed to strictly follow the trinity path, as you say it does - this wouldn't be my game. In that case I should (and would) agree, that the genre of MMO isn't mine. Up to this point I never experienced FPs being that restricted however. And up to this point I had fun with the rest of the game and most other flashpoints.

So I cannot support your view here. But thanks for your input.
It takes nerves of steel to watch this: The story of stuff (21min) Only the bravest will withstand these vids, the rest won't endure. HOME (90min)

Eddar's Avatar


Eddar
04.23.2012 , 06:41 AM | #4
Not all games are for all people just like any other form of art and entertainment.
Not all who look up are searching for gods
Some find confort in being one with the stars!

SvnStrSlm's Avatar


SvnStrSlm
04.23.2012 , 07:05 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Bastilla View Post
Hi Eddar.

I admit, if SWTOR is designed to strictly follow the trinity path, as you say it does - this wouldn't be my game. In that case I should (and would) agree, that the genre of MMO isn't mine. Up to this point I never experienced FPs being that restricted however. And up to this point I had fun with the rest of the game and most other flashpoints.

So I cannot support your view here. But thanks for your input.
The only thing is there is no view to support. That is how these games work. Im sorry but I gotta call troll on this one.

Bastilla's Avatar


Bastilla
04.23.2012 , 07:49 AM | #6
Hi SvnStrSlm !

Well, you are right in that at least Directive 7 works heavily like that. I think, some aspects of this design like searching for a long time to find a perfect fit suiting the role formula isn't for everyone, but surely (or obviously) does please a lot of players. And I respect that. I guess, we can agree upon the fact SWTOR seems to offer different options for various folks, including me (as a non 100% pure DD).

I can imagine there are various quest designs that require a handful of possible strategies. Right now, it's just one (2DD/T/H) for Directive 7. So I have to skip this one until I run into a "fitting" group by chance (more or less).

My feedback will unlikely have any influence at all. It's a report on actual game experience that might be of interest or not and that might echo likewise experience made by others (or not, as with you guys).
(Hope this eliminates further troll - suspicions ;-) Once again, thanks for your thoughts. In fact they made me think.)
It takes nerves of steel to watch this: The story of stuff (21min) Only the bravest will withstand these vids, the rest won't endure. HOME (90min)

Eddar's Avatar


Eddar
04.23.2012 , 08:26 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Bastilla View Post
I can imagine there are various quest designs that require a handful of possible strategies. Right now, it's just one (2DD/T/H) for Directive 7. So I have to skip this one until I run into a "fitting" group by chance (more or less).
PVP is one of the aspects of the game where you don't really need a specific number of roles and you don't need to ask in general for who knows how log.
But if you want to experience PVE you should try to find a guild that might suit your needs. There are loads of guilds out there. RP guilds, PVP guilds, PVE guilds, and a mix of them all. It's just a matter of searching.
Not all who look up are searching for gods
Some find confort in being one with the stars!

YeknomStun's Avatar


YeknomStun
04.23.2012 , 08:33 AM | #8
.....

SpoeMeister's Avatar


SpoeMeister
04.23.2012 , 08:46 AM | #9
Hi

What you seem to be forgetting is that not only you dish out damage. Bosses also dish out damage and usually a lot. A frail DD'er cannot expect to take these hits as well as a dedicated tank.

You may have had fun with the other flashpoints, but apart from Black Talon/Esseless and Hammer Station, I feel that all Flashpoints needed a dedicated tank + healer to go through it. If you did not have that need, I'm thinking you outleveled the content (which is very easy in this game) up till the Foundry.

That being said, there is room for a bit of a deviation. For example: Two Powertech DPS's and one dedicated healer and one whatever DPS can still outlive most content by switching aggro.

However, 4 DD'ers with just a sminch of healing and at least one DD'er is medium armor (=frail) just doesn't cut it... This is common MMO-knowledge (with the rare exceptions)
Everything will be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not yet the end.

Spivak Legacy (ToFN)
SpoeMeister Orrusos Do'chan Nadobo

Bastilla's Avatar


Bastilla
04.24.2012 , 02:02 AM | #10
Okay, your insights have been valuable elucidation to me!
From what I've read I try to derive some logical conclusions (in a Mr.Spock-kind of way).

  1. The game design demands that in the long run I must comply to the trinity formula. (To work around this only works during leveling.) Right?
  2. Means, at least in respect to successful FP questing with others, I can absolutely make false decisions when setting spec points. Hybrids won't get anywhere in the long run. Right?
  3. Means, when speccing up your char you have to be aware of this and make conscious choices, opting for one way only. Right?
  4. Means, step by step the number of persons I can successfully join with will be naturally filtered and limited by their chosen role. Right?
  5. Means, in order to continueously find poeple to group with the ratio of chosen roles of all players must fit more or less the trinity formula of the game mechanics. (50% DDs, 25% Healers, 25% Tanks.) Right?
  6. Means, since it's already hard to find any people using LFG tooling - let alone role filtering - I have to find a guild of actually at least 20 persons or more to cover my need for healers and tanks. Right?
  7. Bundling all players of a given server into separate guilds does not increase the total number of healers and tanks. Right?
  8. Means, the actual ratio of folks (usually DDs) desparately in need for other roles (usually tanks and healers) has not altered, but improved for those lucky guys in guilds with a beneficial ratio, and of course naturally declined for those guys not being in such a guild. Right?
  9. Means, grouping in guilds is a win situation for some gamers by naturally depleting human resources at the other end of the server. Right?

So, in terms of successfully finding fitting groups guilds are win-loose bundling devises. (From an overall mathematical kind of view. But enough funny sidenotes.) I've had one experience with a guild which was rather gruesome - a few bad apples spoiled the cake of solidarity.

What if mass guilds are not my kind?
What if I stick to my approach of giving spec points according to what was fun and used by me during combat more often?

Anyway, I have to thank you guys for truly have pointed me to the fact this is the genre of MMO with a well known formula. Right now, I cannot image to convince my buddies to learn and comply to this as it is a little too complicated and restrictive for the casual gamers they are. For me I have to find a way to deal with the shortcomings (namely running short of poeple to join with) that this trinity distinction involves.


Troll - disclaimer!

I learned (and still learn) MMO functioning by SWTOR (only). Again, I don't try to bring people to rage. Nor do I intend to have a discussion on fundamental pro and cons of this approach - as this leads nowhere. But if I can figure out how this works, and works best for me, this thread might have some merits for others.
It takes nerves of steel to watch this: The story of stuff (21min) Only the bravest will withstand these vids, the rest won't endure. HOME (90min)