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Your technology needs help... lots of help... lots and LOTS of help. :(

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
Your technology needs help... lots of help... lots and LOTS of help. :(

Ricktur's Avatar


Ricktur
04.27.2012 , 11:24 PM | #241
Quote: Originally Posted by strictnine View Post
As much as I admire the effort the OP put into their post, and clearly they seem quite passionate, I think they show very little appreciation for the realities of game development. I've worked in the industry for over ten years myself, it is a rare situation where developers either have the time or the resources to really shine technically at all levels. I've worked for some of the best companies in the industry, and I've seen plenty of awful code and I've even written some myself.

Having a good technical strategy comes down to experience, and you only get experience by researching and solving problems. While some solutions may meet the requirements of a project, they are by no means the best solutions, and any good developer will tell you how many times they wish they could go back and rewrite systems. But game developers, who work hard enough with often demanding schedules, don't always have the luxury of unwinding their mistakes. Sooner or later the game has to ship.

I don't know anyone who worked on this game personally, so I can't vouch for their technical prowess. But I can say that it is easy to criticize technology and offer solutions based on anecdotal analyses, and quite another to be knee deep in the project, facing the realities of a huge project with lots of dependencies and technical hurdles, as well as team politics, which I could seriously write a book about.

Anyway, good luck to the OP. And good luck BW. I'm enjoying the game.
what do you consider "the best companies in the industry"? im truly curious
Sgt. Boos Macarrage - Republic Trooper/Vanguard - PVE Tank Spec
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Republic Commandos: First Ones In, Last Ones Out. Never Quit. Never Fail.

ironix's Avatar


ironix
04.27.2012 , 11:24 PM | #242
Quote: Originally Posted by GlowstickSwinger View Post
Holy crap, I just tested this myself. Absolutely insane...

Quote: Originally Posted by GlowstickSwinger View Post
The physics engine in the SW:TOR client appears to be authoritative regarding movement. This means that if I jump, the client broadcasts data every single video frame until I land on the ground again.
Running tcpdump on my firewall box for all traffic on SW:TOR related ports. I did that simple test of jumping and watched the packet dump suddenly spew forth at more than twice the rate it normally does until I hit the ground.
Godwin's Law for SW:TOR -- As a discussion in the SW:TOR forums grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving WoW or being told to "go back to WoW" approaches 1.

Dirtysmellyhippy's Avatar


Dirtysmellyhippy
04.27.2012 , 11:26 PM | #243
Bump for truth

dprijadi's Avatar


dprijadi
04.27.2012 , 11:33 PM | #244
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Ravenhurst View Post
BW please hire this guy, he knows what he is talking about.
no he doesnt know anything at all, he just blabbing nonsense. his blabber filled with tech jargon that will make layman think he know something grand, but to a real programmer his talk is just that .. a clueless person pretending to know everything..

Game development is a massive team effort with lots of different speciality. Not many Game Developer make their own engine for their game, most just license an existing engine to save development time , save money and save headache of troubleshooting both engine and content. Bioware uses customized HEROENGINE as their core engine and if there are performance issues then it can be traced back to this engine.

http://www.heroengine.com/

ironix's Avatar


ironix
04.27.2012 , 11:37 PM | #245
Quote: Originally Posted by dprijadi View Post
no he doesnt know anything at all, he just blabbing nonsense. his blabber filled with tech jargon that will make layman think he know something grand, but to a real programmer his talk is just that .. a clueless person pretending to know everything..
Are you a developer? Cause I am, albeit not a games developer, and what he says does explain a lot of things.

Incidentally, I did do test of one of his assertions (the physics engine being responsible for sending out player location data) via tcpdump and jumping and it does appear that this is indeed the case.
Godwin's Law for SW:TOR -- As a discussion in the SW:TOR forums grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving WoW or being told to "go back to WoW" approaches 1.

dprijadi's Avatar


dprijadi
04.27.2012 , 11:40 PM | #246
Quote: Originally Posted by ironix View Post
Are you a developer? Cause I am, albeit not a games developer, and what he says does explain a lot of things.

Incidentally, I did do test of one of his assertions (the physics engine being responsible for sending out player location data) via tcpdump and jumping and it does appear that this is indeed the case.
i am game developer , part of a team of developer and on my private time i program games for mobile devices with my friend as personal venture.

dprijadi's Avatar


dprijadi
04.27.2012 , 11:45 PM | #247
Quote: Originally Posted by ironix View Post
Incidentally, I did do test of one of his assertions (the physics engine being responsible for sending out player location data) via tcpdump and jumping and it does appear that this is indeed the case.
the question should be directed to HeroEngine guys since they are the one making the low level parts of the engine, not bioware as the user.

in my line of work , i never modify the core SDK or any low level Engine parts (if its even modifiable by licensee) because to modify SDK / Low Level parts means upgrade nightmare when your custom low level codes get mixed up with the new Engine update..

ironix's Avatar


ironix
04.27.2012 , 11:52 PM | #248
Quote: Originally Posted by dprijadi View Post
the question should be directed to HeroEngine guys since they are the one making the low level parts of the engine, not bioware as the user.

in my line of work , i never modify the core SDK or any low level Engine parts (if its even modifiable by licensee) because to modify SDK / Low Level parts means upgrade nightmare when your custom low level codes get mixed up with the new Engine update..
Actually, the question should not be directed to the HeroEngine guys. Bioware bought an unfinished version of the HeroEngine with swaths of undocumented code. Bioware would have subsequently heavily modified the engine to suit their needs. What the HeroEngine is today is NOT what Bioware bought.

From: http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/he...eets-starwars/

Quote:
“It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon. “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security. And there are very few comments and very little documentation.”

He didn’t care. “We are going to have tons of engineers. We can finish it ourselves. We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”
Godwin's Law for SW:TOR -- As a discussion in the SW:TOR forums grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving WoW or being told to "go back to WoW" approaches 1.

dprijadi's Avatar


dprijadi
04.27.2012 , 11:55 PM | #249
as for my experience in playing SWTOR, im using 3 different computers (all at different locations) and never encounter performance problem. My computer are not high tech or massively overpowered gears, its a mix and match of last year spec and even older specs.. here the list :

- Macbook Pro 17" 2010 with Core i5 and 4GB RAM, running W7 Enterprise x64 using BootCamp, GPU Nvidia 230
- Macbook Air 11" 2011 with Core i5 and 4GB RAM (128GB SSD), running W7 Enterprise x64 using BootCamp, GPU Intel HD3000
- PC with Phenom X3-720 and 4GB RAM , running W7 Ultimate X64 , GPU ATI Radeon 6790

Note that Macbook Air 11" uses a low power low performance Core i5 with clock speed below 2ghz. The GPU is Intel HD3000 and yet i ran SWTOR full quality (except Shadow=low and Anisotropy=low) at 1366x768 resolution. Every computer on that list is old especially the PC. The Macbooks are development machines set to dualboot OSX Lion and Windows , the PC are just for gaming.

All 3 computer also used to play World of Warcraft, EVE Online and other BIoware Products (Mass Effect series, Dragon Age Series, Witcher Series) successfully (using External Harddisk for macbook air to save the small onboard SSD space)

GlowstickSwinger's Avatar


GlowstickSwinger
04.27.2012 , 11:56 PM | #250
Quote: Originally Posted by dprijadi View Post
the question should be directed to HeroEngine guys since they are the one making the low level parts of the engine, not bioware as the user.

in my line of work , i never modify the core SDK or any low level Engine parts (if its even modifiable by licensee) because to modify SDK / Low Level parts means upgrade nightmare when your custom low level codes get mixed up with the new Engine update..
You're wrong. Completely. Totally. Someone learned iOS and... what, you're writing real-time apps via push notifications?

Network I/O strategy is not a 'low level' engine component that you just swap out with a new, shiny, speedier solutoin. It is an all-inclusive business-wide effort, from the design decisions, to asset creation, to the IT (and any CDN in this case if it's even there) capabilities, to the deployment scripts, to the the coder discipline to operate within the set limitations. It's not just something you download and plug-in.

Having an event broadcast, per frame mind you, coords to the server using the physics engine authoritatively through TCP is overkill for a non-FPS. It's what a dev team with a strong FPS history would do.

Complete tomfoolery to think that network i/o is the job of the engine team only.