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Zorn and Toth - is it meant to be such a frickle fight?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Zorn and Toth - is it meant to be such a frickle fight?

Dee-Jay's Avatar

04.22.2012 , 03:56 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by xenofire View Post
If you get the positioning down the rest of the fight is easy, even on hard mode. Just stand in the right places.
Well that's exactly what I was asking. Is positioning really that important and if so, how and why?

drunknurse's Avatar

04.22.2012 , 05:52 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Dee-Jay View Post
Well that's exactly what I was asking. Is positioning really that important and if so, how and why?
Well, you should know the answer to that... It is important because apparently its the reason your group cant down it. Believe it or not you DO have to kinda learn how to do these bosses before you will down them. I wonder what some of these people would have done in wow lol.
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The_Butler's Avatar

04.23.2012 , 07:19 AM | #13
Okay not an expert in this field but trundled in the other night to have a poke and it's very much like a lot of bosses - once you understand it you do think "doh" why did it take us so many wipes!

It is also a fight that is very position heavy if you are not very well geared, and is particularly harsh on under-geared melee classes.

However that being said it is doable but does need people to be on their toes.

Tanking positions are the least important - as someone suggested already, by the right of the cave and left in the trees is where we finally settled on.

Tanks need to be quick on their agro swap as is not a lot of room for error if they mess up.

Melee DPS stay on Zorn (or whoever the boss is on the right hand side when you enter is - i got intimate with him as the lightning ). Depending on the class makeup ranged should have no problem staying between 25 - 30 meters - if they do they just need to learn not to I'm afraid. What we did to help was put a target marker on the ranged DPS so that it was easier to visually get bearings for the healers and other ranged if they were straying too far. With practice this wouldn't be needed but did mean we could create a GPS style triangle safe-zone at all times between the two bosses.

Lastly the enrage timer is 5mins (some places have mentioned 4:30 which unless my stopwatch is broken is not accurate) but even with a mostly Columi geared group we surprisingly had a good amount of time to spare so no need to get "loose" and panic towards the end of the fight - especially as you do have to keep a good selection alive to kill the Champion who jumps down after.

Whilst learning the mechanics its also helpful to assign different people things to keep an eye on.
We assigned a ranged DPS "spotter" to keep an eye out for the orange "Mental Anguish" debuff, another ranged DPS to act as a "spotter" if it looked like someone was edging into the 25m range and another ranged DPS acted as the "spotter" to coordinate the DPS on the bosses and alert each tank of when one was approaching the "leap" stage.
Our tanks were also very communicative about verbalising that they had picked up agro and checking positioning each time with the healers.

Appreciate to all those Rakata geared guys this may all seem completley OTT but just sharing some tips that we found advantageous, especially as we're quite a casual raid guild and might offer help to those similar guilds.

Onibubu's Avatar

04.23.2012 , 07:51 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Dee-Jay View Post
It can't be that simple,

we wasted 18 tries and must have talked ~30 minutes about positioning.

I'm pretty sure there's more to the fight than simply "tankswap" and "avoid red circles" because even in the better tries our healers were "ooming" at roughly ~30%.
Storymode or Hardmode?
In Storymode your healers should be able to heal through some mechanics.
Storymode is very forgivable if you make errors.

In Hardmode positioning and standing on max range is ESSENTIAL, else people take to much damage and your healers get a serious problem with their force/etc.

In our best tries (all range dps, day 1) we got them several time to 5-10 % each and stil had a good chunk of force. Then enrage hits because our dps probably suck and jea^^ wipe.

On our second day (1 melee rest range dps) both healers got in serious problems with keeping people alive and their force. It was not just the melee, everyone made mistakes and took aoes ect.
We changed our positioning a little bit and i am certain if we play with all range dps again und everyone has a good day this boss finaly wil be dead.

But yes, out raidlead wants to try T&Z the next time with 2 melee dps, dont ask me why^^
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Freeborne's Avatar

04.23.2012 , 07:58 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Dee-Jay View Post
It can't be that simple,

we wasted 18 tries and must have talked ~30 minutes about positioning.

I'm pretty sure there's more to the fight than simply "tankswap" and "avoid red circles" because even in the better tries our healers were "ooming" at roughly ~30%.

How well geared are your tanks, and healers? It's certainly a gear check fight.

To be honest, on Story Mode we don't even have our DPS switch targets until near the end. We put our melee on the one that leaps. (Zoth, I think? I always have to refer to a cheat sheet for their names). That way they never get hit by the leap. Range stay on the other. (Assuming you run with 2 melee and 2 ranged DPS. If you're running with at 3 or 4 melee dps....this fight will be a headache and will require some extra Hokey Pokey.)
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Grimnoire's Avatar

04.23.2012 , 08:11 AM | #16
I actually didn't find this fight to be too bad as melee, if you stack melee on whichever boss is on the right hand side throughout the fight they most likely won't have to deal with the enrage (just the way the timing works out).

I think the best way to do it is to have two tank "positions" that the bosses are always tanked at, far enough away that they don't power up. Healers and ranged at max range somewhere in between and all melee on the right hand boss at all times. The only real damage you have to deal with is the 2-4k from the bosses AoE type abilities and stomp when they jump to each other. Tanks swap to the other target when they jump and the tank picking up the boss that jumped will run over to the jump spot, taunt, and run back to his position.

They always jump to the left first so until 70% the melee don't even have anything to worry about. Happens again at 30% but everyone should be well aware thats happening and thats more than far enough apart to keep things from getting hectic.

This is one of those fights you wipe at above 85% over and over again, then everyone suddenly grasps the mechanics and they go down easy.

"Your tongue cannot repel flavor of that magnitude!"

MelliMelon's Avatar

04.23.2012 , 08:36 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Dee-Jay View Post
Obviously common sense and curtsy are too much for you. If you having nothing to say...don't say anything.
I think he was making a joke, that's something the boss says during the fight

@OP: I've run this fight with a few different groups. With one group (our guild's A group) it was super easy and simple (literally just "don't stand in stupid and stay far away". Everyone was always at 50% plus. WIth the other group, it was a nightmare, and people fell like (wait for it) *snap* that! It may simply be a matter of gear that is the issue. PM for more info if you want.

Maestrodomus's Avatar

04.23.2012 , 08:48 AM | #18
Why do you keep asking a question you have several answers.

Keep them apart, tank swap after the leap, face them away from the raid, don't stand in the stupid.
Dark Fury [Canderous Ordo]

TheVoidStalker's Avatar

04.23.2012 , 10:33 AM | #19
How does the Fearful mechanic actually work? How does it get applied?

"When Toth jumps" is an insufficient answer. There's much more specifics than that, and it's those that matter.

Arzoo's Avatar

04.23.2012 , 01:39 PM | #20
How is "at the jump" insufficient? It certainly proved sufficient for my op group. Every time they jump swap targets; so long as you were only within 25-30 meters of the one you've been dpsing you'll never have trouble with the debuff. It's not even a huge deal as long as you're on your toes; I accidentally stood too close to the far boss and got fearful at the same time we were swapping to the fearful boss and it still only took me 1 grav round to be absolutely sure I needed to simply swap back to the previous target for a while, focused op fire be damned.