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Is Bloodthirst/Inspiration required for successful raiding?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Is Bloodthirst/Inspiration required for successful raiding?

Kelderek's Avatar


Kelderek
04.21.2012 , 06:33 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Vaahanian View Post
2 The ability itself has a 5 minute cooldown so this is a moot point =/.
I don't think you understand my reasoning on this second part. Right now if you have 2 marauders in a group then you can benefit from this buff twice as often. This gets more and more overpowered the more Marauders you bring. The debuff would prevent that from happening as a balance against there potentially being more people in your raid who can bring the buff.

Quote: Originally Posted by AidanLightwalker View Post
I would agree with what others have said, melee dps already doesn't get brought very often because they take more damage and because of certain mechanics have less uptime on target. If they gave the buff to someone else, ranged at that, they would never get brought to ops runs, period. As of right now, op states that they don't even have one.

And bring the player not the class? While that sounded good in on paper for wow, it lead to alot of people not getting raid spots. Alot of top guilds went all range dps except for the tank. I was there, I had a assination rogue and a fury warrior that nobody in the guild wanted to bring with. The only action my warrior got was when I decided to tank the raid. My poor rogue was always over looked, even thou going into firelands he could do 25-28k dps on good fights.
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You are assuming that we made a conscious choice to not have a Marauder on our team. This is not the case. We picked a set of skilled players who enjoy each other's company. We really did not make any choices for class beyond the usual needs of tank, healers and a set of 4 dps. The problem is that we can't do this in reality because the game is effectively penalizing us for not have that one advanced class on our team. This is the part I have a problem with -- we shouldn't be forced to bring a certain class, we should be able to bring any class that fits the proper role of tank, healer, dps and choose our friends and skilled players to fill those roles.

I fully understand the argument that says no one would ever choose Marauders if the buff was available elsewhere, but again as I said before that shows a much larger problem of class balance at the core. This is actually the biggest issue with BOTH of the two pure DPS advanced classes and I could argue that right now it is even worse for snipers. Snipers do not offer anything to a raid that cannot already be done as well or better by Mercenaries and Sorcerers. And on top of that Sniper is the least played of all the advanced classes. Bioware needs to address the issues with both of these classes to ensure that both of them can be desirable for use in operations.

Quote:
You want the buff? Bring the player who is actually playing the the class then.
So what you're saying here is I need to tell one of my friends to sit out so that we can recruit a new stranger who plays that class just so our raid team can be successful? It shouldn't have to be that way.

erei's Avatar


erei
04.21.2012 , 06:45 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by KarethRiker View Post
Couldn't the same be said about the +5% crit buff that a Smuggler or Agent brings?
I bring this buff with my consular, and my trooper. Legacy is cool.

AidanLightwalker's Avatar


AidanLightwalker
04.21.2012 , 06:58 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Kelderek View Post
I don't think you understand my reasoning on this second part. Right now if you have 2 marauders in a group then you can benefit from this buff twice as often. This gets more and more overpowered the more Marauders you bring. The debuff would prevent that from happening as a balance against there potentially being more people in your raid who can bring the buff.



You are assuming that we made a conscious choice to not have a Marauder on our team. This is not the case. We picked a set of skilled players who enjoy each other's company. We really did not make any choices for class beyond the usual needs of tank, healers and a set of 4 dps. The problem is that we can't do this in reality because the game is effectively penalizing us for not have that one advanced class on our team. This is the part I have a problem with -- we shouldn't be forced to bring a certain class, we should be able to bring any class that fits the proper role of tank, healer, dps and choose our friends and skilled players to fill those roles.

I fully understand the argument that says no one would ever choose Marauders if the buff was available elsewhere, but again as I said before that shows a much larger problem of class balance at the core. This is actually the biggest issue with BOTH of the two pure DPS advanced classes and I could argue that right now it is even worse for snipers. Snipers do not offer anything to a raid that cannot already be done as well or better by Mercenaries and Sorcerers. And on top of that Sniper is the least played of all the advanced classes. Bioware needs to address the issues with both of these classes to ensure that both of them can be desirable for use in operations.



So what you're saying here is I need to tell one of my friends to sit out so that we can recruit a new stranger who plays that class just so our raid team can be successful? It shouldn't have to be that way.
I want to agree with you, cause I see your point, it sucks. I just can't help thinking about all the enhancement shammies that never got to raid again after Mages got time warp. The only thing a shammy was going to do from that point on was heal and if we didn't need a healer, to bad for the shammy. It sucks, I feel ya. Just not sure it would go better any other way.
Even the smallest of light sources can light up the darkness.
Nyren - Combat Sentinel Ewenn - Shield Vanguard
Kyrenn - Scoundrel SawbonesSyrenn - Telekinetics Sage

Beron's Avatar


Beron
04.21.2012 , 07:15 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by AidanLightwalker View Post
I would agree with what others have said, melee dps already doesn't get brought very often because they take more damage and because of certain mechanics have less uptime on target. If they gave the buff to someone else, ranged at that, they would never get brought to ops runs, period. As of right now, op states that they don't even have one.
Thats excatly the point, they dont bring a melee dd to their raids cause they know that a range dd is 100 times better than a melee dd. Now they realize that having that buff would be a nice to have thing and ask that a range dd is given something equal. Sorry but I am totally against that. Playing a melee dd myself I know how hard it is, most of the boss encounters are much easier if you are a range dd. You stay out of aoe effects, you dont get pushed back etc.

The point is giving that buff to another class will make the marauder/sentinel obsolte. Its already that way. Look how many range dds you have in a raid and how many melee dd. Even in the 50er hm fps, a range dd is mostly taken.

goatfoam's Avatar


goatfoam
04.21.2012 , 07:18 PM | #15
We've done it, yeah. We did a full clear (hm) on Thursday with the following setup:

Tanks: Shadow, Guardian
Healers: Sage, Sage
DPS: Commando, Commando, Commando, Guardian

Not our optimal setup but we usually run 16 man, we were just light on Thursday. We usually run with two Sentinels in our 16 man runs. Still, definitely possible. Would we have killed the bosses a bit faster with a Sentinel or two? Sure. Would it have mattered? Nah.

I do agree with you about the buff though. It needs a Bloodlust syle debuff to prevent multiple uses (which I'm certain it will get) but sure, I think Snipers should get it too. I mean why not? So long as they don't [i]actually[/b] start tuning fights around Inspiration it's' all gravy.

Beron's Avatar


Beron
04.21.2012 , 07:22 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Kelderek View Post
This is actually the biggest issue with BOTH of the two pure DPS advanced classes and I could argue that right now it is even worse for snipers. Snipers do not offer anything to a raid that cannot already be done as well or better by Mercenaries and Sorcerers.
right... what about that big shield snipers have? Maybe they should give that shield to some other ac class aswell... Bloodthirst/Inspiration only benefits your group (max 4 people), where the ballistic shield benefits everyone in the raid if they stand within the range. -20% dmg for 16 people in raid is imo far superior to a 15% dmg and healing buff to only 4 out of 16 people in a raid.

Beron's Avatar


Beron
04.21.2012 , 07:24 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by goatfoam View Post
I think Snipers should get it too. I mean why not? So long as they don't [i]actually[/b] start tuning fights around Inspiration it's' all gravy.
why not? cause I dont get their shield.

Kelderek's Avatar


Kelderek
04.21.2012 , 07:35 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Beron View Post
Thats excatly the point, they dont bring a melee dd to their raids cause they know that a range dd is 100 times better than a melee dd. Now they realize that having that buff would be a nice to have thing and ask that a range dd is given something equal. Sorry but I am totally against that. Playing a melee dd myself I know how hard it is, most of the boss encounters are much easier if you are a range dd. You stay out of aoe effects, you dont get pushed back etc.
You completely ignored what I said in my posts. I never said we don't bring any melee dps, all I said is we currently do not have a Marauder. I also said that we did not fill our raid slots based on class, or even ranged vs. melee distinctions at all, we simply chose 4 DPS who were friends and skilled people behind the keys. What you have done is taken the part where I say "we don't have a Marauder" and are twisting that to mean "we don't want any melee" and this is not the case in my raid.

Exathine's Avatar


Exathine
04.21.2012 , 09:11 PM | #19
We are 4/4 HM EC. Yes a Marauder should be in your roster.

1) Their damage output potential is very high. (Our current one hits 1600 DPS, where our average raider hits 1200-1300 DPS)

2) Predation is very useful for Gift of the Masters (Warlord Kephess HM encounter)

3) Bloodthirst is an essential buff for burn phases / general raid dps.

Ideal DPS group would have only 1 melee, and that being a Marauder for listed reasons.

Influence >> Sorcerer
Exploit >> Operative

ViperI's Avatar


ViperI
04.21.2012 , 09:26 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Jokingly View Post
This buff is literally the only reason to bring the class to a raid.
This. This buff is a nice perk for a class that would otherwise probably be left out of most ops groups in favor of ranged DPS if the guild has enough people to pick and choose the most optimal setup.

If things are so tight that inspiration is literally the deciding factor between winning and losing, you're just undergeared for the fight. Gear up better so that your entire raid DPS is doing more base damage and you won't need inspiration.
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