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Is Bloodthirst/Inspiration required for successful raiding?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Is Bloodthirst/Inspiration required for successful raiding?

Kelderek's Avatar


Kelderek
04.21.2012 , 02:22 AM | #1
I ask this because right now I have not heard of any guild that has successfully beaten HM encounters like Firebrand & Stormcaller without having at least one Marauder/Sentinel in the group. Every video of a successful kill that I have seen has had one or more of these classes present. My 8man HM ops team has hit the enrage timers a few times in our currently unsuccessful attempts at this fight and it is starting to look like we might have no choice but to reform our team to make room for a Marauder for the Bloodthirst buff.

I would expect some of you will post here saying that sure these encounters can be done without this buff and that may be so, but it seems to me that not having this buff on your ops team is a rather large disadvantage.

I offer two changes to Bloodthirst/Inspiration that I think would balance it out a bit:

1. Expand the availability of the buff to another class. The logical choice here would be the Sniper/Gunslinger as it is the only other pure DPS advanced class. This would increase the desirability for a class that already suffers from the lowest use by players of all the classes. It would also make it easier for an operation team to have this buff available, especially in 8-man groups that may not have a Marauder/Sentinel present at all.

2. Only allow this buff to benefit a player once every 5 minutes. This would have to be accomplished by adding a debuff to all players who received the buff to begin with, something that would work much like the debuff you currently get when a battle rez is used. This would prevent the massive benefit a raid team can currently enjoy if they stack a bunch of Marauders on their team. This would also seem to be a necessary addition if you were to enact my first suggestion above of doubling the number of classes that can bring this buff to a raid.

If you were to add these two changes then more diverse raid groups would have an equal chance to benefit from this powerful buff while also ensuring that it can't be abused to oversimplify a challenging encounter.

Kerotan's Avatar


Kerotan
04.21.2012 , 05:25 AM | #2
We have sucessfully cleared 3/4 HM denova without a Sent without any issues using no Inspiration, but now coming to the final boss I can see where we are at a massive disadvantage with it.

There are so many nuke phases where if you miss it its a whole wipe.
<Insomnia>
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erruanon's Avatar


erruanon
04.21.2012 , 08:26 AM | #3
The problems with sent and mara at the moment is that they do the best dps off all classes and they bring a buff that buffs the group dps.So if you dont have one in you raid you are really hurting your dps

drunknurse's Avatar


drunknurse
04.21.2012 , 08:30 AM | #4
The first intelligent OP I have seen in a very long time... <3 I agree with both of those suggestions 100%!
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Jokingly's Avatar


Jokingly
04.21.2012 , 09:27 AM | #5
This buff is literally the only reason to bring the class to a raid. While you are attempting to offer solutions to make groups more diverse I fear that in doing so you will actually limit the viability of this class, making groups more streamlined.

If you give bloodthirst to a sniper, for example, groups would be encouraged to double up on snipers and forgo marauders completely. Melee dps is naturally handicapped by splash damage mechanics; they need something to make them PvE viable.

Kelderek's Avatar


Kelderek
04.21.2012 , 12:36 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Jokingly View Post
This buff is literally the only reason to bring the class to a raid. While you are attempting to offer solutions to make groups more diverse I fear that in doing so you will actually limit the viability of this class, making groups more streamlined.

If you give bloodthirst to a sniper, for example, groups would be encouraged to double up on snipers and forgo marauders completely. Melee dps is naturally handicapped by splash damage mechanics; they need something to make them PvE viable.
I keep going back to the idea that became so popular in that Game Which Will Not Be Named: "Bring the player, not the class"

My intent here is to address the balancing of a buff that can affect the success or failure of an entire operations group. We should not be filling a raid slot only because of a buff that class brings. I would much rather be able to bring a highly skilled player of a different class than be forced to bring someone of a very specific class.

If what you say is true about the buff being the ONLY reason to have Marauders and Sentinels in a raid group then Bioware has other issues to address with that class beyond the Bloodthirst/Inspiration buff and the proper fix would have to involve a lot more than changes to just this buff to correct that.

I'd would rather not have this discussion focus on whether or not Marauders and Sentinels bring other value to a raid beyond this group buff. Let's please focus on how we can help balance out this buff for raid groups with different class compositions who may currently be struggling with enrage mechanics due to this disadvantage.

KarethRiker's Avatar


KarethRiker
04.21.2012 , 02:32 PM | #7
Couldn't the same be said about the +5% crit buff that a Smuggler or Agent brings?

Kelderek's Avatar


Kelderek
04.21.2012 , 02:50 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by KarethRiker View Post
Couldn't the same be said about the +5% crit buff that a Smuggler or Agent brings?
You really can't compare this buff to the class buffs. The Bloodthirst/Inspriration buff is provided by only 1 out of 8 advanced classes per faction. The class buffs are provided by BOTH ACs of that class so that is already twice as many chances to get each of those buffs. In addition, due to legacy the chances are even higher to get a specific class buff since each player can provide the class buff of their alt characters that are at least past chapter 2.

So in general the odds are far higher that you will have access to a specific class buff than there are for having the Bloodthirst/Inspiration buff available.

Vaahanian's Avatar


Vaahanian
04.21.2012 , 04:20 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kelderek View Post
I ask this because right now I have not heard of any guild that has successfully beaten HM encounters like Firebrand & Stormcaller without having at least one Marauder/Sentinel in the group. Every video of a successful kill that I have seen has had one or more of these classes present. My 8man HM ops team has hit the enrage timers a few times in our currently unsuccessful attempts at this fight and it is starting to look like we might have no choice but to reform our team to make room for a Marauder for the Bloodthirst buff.

I would expect some of you will post here saying that sure these encounters can be done without this buff and that may be so, but it seems to me that not having this buff on your ops team is a rather large disadvantage.

I offer two changes to Bloodthirst/Inspiration that I think would balance it out a bit:

1. Expand the availability of the buff to another class. The logical choice here would be the Sniper/Gunslinger as it is the only other pure DPS advanced class. This would increase the desirability for a class that already suffers from the lowest use by players of all the classes. It would also make it easier for an operation team to have this buff available, especially in 8-man groups that may not have a Marauder/Sentinel present at all.

2. Only allow this buff to benefit a player once every 5 minutes. This would have to be accomplished by adding a debuff to all players who received the buff to begin with, something that would work much like the debuff you currently get when a battle rez is used. This would prevent the massive benefit a raid team can currently enjoy if they stack a bunch of Marauders on their team. This would also seem to be a necessary addition if you were to enact my first suggestion above of doubling the number of classes that can bring this buff to a raid.

If you were to add these two changes then more diverse raid groups would have an equal chance to benefit from this powerful buff while also ensuring that it can't be abused to oversimplify a challenging encounter.
1. You will have to give something new or something from another AC to Mara/Sent to compensate. Like people are saying, this buff is one of the very few reasons you take this AC to operations.

2 The ability itself has a 5 minute cooldown so this is a moot point =/.

Imo, from an 8 man perspective yes having a Mara/Sent in your ops is a huge benefit because your entire dps squad is going to get the buff. If you are a 16 man guild then taking 1 Mara/Sent is going to be lackluster because only that group of 4 is going to benefit, so in total you would need more like 2-3 Mara/Sent for a 16 man ops.

AidanLightwalker's Avatar


AidanLightwalker
04.21.2012 , 04:53 PM | #10
I would agree with what others have said, melee dps already doesn't get brought very often because they take more damage and because of certain mechanics have less uptime on target. If they gave the buff to someone else, ranged at that, they would never get brought to ops runs, period. As of right now, op states that they don't even have one.

And bring the player not the class? While that sounded good in on paper for wow, it lead to alot of people not getting raid spots. Alot of top guilds went all range dps except for the tank. I was there, I had a assination rogue and a fury warrior that nobody in the guild wanted to bring with. The only action my warrior got was when I decided to tank the raid. My poor rogue was always over looked, even thou going into firelands he could do 25-28k dps on good fights.

You want the buff? Bring the player who is actually playing the the class then.
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