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Do You want cross server LFG tool?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Do You want cross server LFG tool?

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
04.23.2012 , 12:45 PM | #321
Quote: Originally Posted by Gydlock View Post
Cross Realm. No.
Server LFG. Yes.
Auto transport to FP through dungeon finder. Yes.
Realm transfer options and merging.. Yes.

Cross Realm ruined WoW for me. There is no accountability in a cross realm group.
Single Realm allows more of a chance to group with the same people again (build community relations) and use your ignore feature to avoid bad players.
The common complaint is that queues are slow on a single server. Typically they're slow cause there aren't enough healers and tanks. I'll tell you from my own experience that tanking in a cross realm dungeon can be intimidating if you're still learning or aren't a super geared phenom player. I think if everyone practiced a little more patience in dungeons and didn't assume that every run will be full throttle, hammer down, cake walk... maybe more players would try and learn the tank or healer role.
There is accountability in a cross-realm group in the form of vote-kick. But please do explain exactly how "accountability" works in single-server LFG.

There is nothing stopping you from grouping with people you find in an X-LFG group... if they're on your server.

No, the expectation is that there will be no groups on 80%+ of existing servers that are not high population if the implementation is single-server.

chimex's Avatar


chimex
04.23.2012 , 01:06 PM | #322
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthTHC View Post
1) Won't help people on dead servers. Over 80% of the servers are in this category. May not even help people on Standard servers. Will help people on the 8% of servers that are Heavy or better. In short, no this won't help.

2) Won't happen any time soon. BioWare will not admit defeat by merging servers earlier in a game's life than any other MMO in history. Admitting defeat being in the eyes of the stock market, which can seriously impact EA's bottom line.

3) Temporary solution at best. Server populations shift over time. What is high today might be low tomorrow, then you're in the same boat.

Please give a concrete example of bad behavior in a community that is driven by X-LFG that does not exist in this game right now.
1) It can if implimented correctly. eg: have player level bands or mission pickups so you can say "hey, you have mission, fp XYZ..."

2) Server merges do not admit defeat. since they have done this in FFXIV, subscriptions have gone up. Gameplay has increased for many.

3) Why would this only be temporary?

And why not a mix of all 3? I see no reason why this will not solve the initial complaint?

as for your example, since a certain game introduced the LFG tool, subscriptions have been lost.

Exibit A: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9SR0fMX9A1...25283%2529.png

Ninja looting, a complaint from players themselves, exibit B: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2352185270

and exibit C, a more wordy example of exibit A: http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forum...in-other-games

There's your evidence

x
The Progenitor (RP): Shazmi:<Crimson Moon>

DarthTHC's Avatar


DarthTHC
04.23.2012 , 01:51 PM | #323
Quote: Originally Posted by chimex View Post
1) It can if implimented correctly. eg: have player level bands or mission pickups so you can say "hey, you have mission, fp XYZ..."

2) Server merges do not admit defeat. since they have done this in FFXIV, subscriptions have gone up. Gameplay has increased for many.

3) Why would this only be temporary?

And why not a mix of all 3? I see no reason why this will not solve the initial complaint?

as for your example, since a certain game introduced the LFG tool, subscriptions have been lost.

Exibit A: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9SR0fMX9A1...25283%2529.png

Ninja looting, a complaint from players themselves, exibit B: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2352185270

and exibit C, a more wordy example of exibit A: http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forum...in-other-games

There's your evidence

x
You're not living in reality.

EA will not let BioWare merge servers any time soon. It is absolutely not an option and cannot be considered as part of a solution.

Blizzard introduced X-LFG and then subscriptions increased. Check the timeline. Subscriptions have decreased recently, yes. But the timeframe immediately following introduction of X-LFG saw increased subscriptions.

Fear of Ninja looting is an invalid argument against X-LFG because it happens in the game RIGHT NOW. Oh, and there's nothing you can do about it in the game right now unless you're the group leader. Well, except drop group.

I explained why #3 would only be temporary in my post.

Valkirus's Avatar


Valkirus
04.23.2012 , 01:59 PM | #324
Quote: Originally Posted by mindriot View Post
I'm goad you brought this up because I was there for both implementation of same server lfg, and it failed in both games miserably. I hope they don't go this way to "try" and see if it works, it won't. And you've lost more time for people to drop the game. Bioware in my mind has created some very good content, but if ppl don't have the chance to get into it.....this game won't survive, and that's sad because they have something good....but there are a few things the mmo player of 2012 won't do without.
I agree. A same server LFG tool is going to fail on a low pop server. The cross server looking for grp tool was a huge success for say WoW. So much so Blizzard continues to expand it and the last few months added the Looking for Raid feature. In thier next expansion, it will include all 3 new raids. Now I ask you....why would a company continue to improve and expand upon a failed feature? Does not make it any sense. No matter what some may say on the forums, Blizzard is smart enough to look at thier own internal data to decide if a feature is failing or not.
Trust is something which is earned.

MasterKayote's Avatar


MasterKayote
04.23.2012 , 02:05 PM | #325
Quote: Originally Posted by Valkirus View Post
Exactly..esp number 3. WoW and Rift also tried same server first. That failed and they both went to a cross server one. Which no matter how much you hate it...has been very successful in doing what it is meant to do...get the casual players ( who pay the same sub fee ) into a lot of game content they otherwise would never experence.
WoWs same server LFG was a POS. The interface sucked and the matching sucked. You were better off using it to find groups manually. Even then much like the tool we have now, it sucked and no one used it. They eventually brought back the global LFG channel to find groups the old fashioned way. It wasnt until cross-server that they finally made the matching work correctly and efficiently, it wasnt random dungeon until x-server, and it sure as hell didnt offer rewards (specially to the rarer roles) until cross server.

Just because it failed in WoW doesnt mean it will here. Only thing a same server needs is a well populated server, some incentive to actually do an FP more than once (ever), and a welcoming interface with efficient design that people will actually use! Only thing including an Xserver does is speed up the matching, which is all nice until its all turned into a "gogogo" "insta kick/replace for any stupid reason" "I can be a jerk, nothing will ever happen" "tanks are special snowflakes" "silent drone runs" ... we have going on in WoW.

And yes, the Xserver either started or greatly multiplied those behaviors. Going on my 4th 50 now and I have yet to be in a group that doesnt talk, a group that just wants to rush through everything (other than dialogue theyve seen 100 times AT END GAME), or a group that kicks someone for every tiny mistake because a new one will instantly replace and pop up right in front of the leader. Something thats BTW happening in WoW constantly ... so much so there is a new threads/posts about it every day (seems every day I check there are 2 new ones 1, 2).

Downplay it or ignore it all you want, the proof is all over that game. Making insta-gratification groups, porting them, and removing all accountability and consequence from their communities GREATLY devalues the grouping feature of an MMO.

DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
04.23.2012 , 02:13 PM | #326
Quote: Originally Posted by chimex View Post
1) It can if implimented correctly. eg: have player level bands or mission pickups so you can say "hey, you have mission, fp XYZ..."

2) Server merges do not admit defeat. since they have done this in FFXIV, subscriptions have gone up. Gameplay has increased for many.

3) Why would this only be temporary?

And why not a mix of all 3? I see no reason why this will not solve the initial complaint?

as for your example, since a certain game introduced the LFG tool, subscriptions have been lost.

Exibit A: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9SR0fMX9A1...25283%2529.png

Ninja looting, a complaint from players themselves, exibit B: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2352185270

and exibit C, a more wordy example of exibit A: http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forum...in-other-games

There's your evidence

x
The delusion is strong with this one.

Anecdotal postings about people being idiots, dolts, greedy, rude or whatever DO NOT prove anything. And everything that you don't like that has happened in groups formed by LFG tools in other games ALREADY can and does happen in SWTOR (e.g. bad players, greedy loot whores, rude and obnoxious players).

Also as has been posted, subs in WoW went up post LFG and then dropped when no new meaningful content was added in over a year. I let my sub lapse at the point ICC had gone on for over six months, and it had nothing to do with LFG. In fact, if LFG didn't exist, I would have let my sub expire even sooner.

Since you seem to believe anecdotes and miscellaneous data points prove causation, I'll go ahead and state that LFG tools actually prolong subs based on the evidence of my experience, though I'll also concede that even LFG tools cannot prevent an eventual decline in subs if there is an absence of new content.

The one thing that can be proven is that a larger pool of players has a better chance of forming a group than a smaller pool of players. Limiting grouping tools to single servers limits the player pool, thus limits and slows the number of groups to be formed.

And mergers DO NOT solve the issue. As has been mentioned before, there will still be times of the day, week, month where there will not be enough players for certain factions or level bands to form a group on a single server, while there would be enough players to forum a group if all servers were part of the pool.

Desolatos's Avatar


Desolatos
04.23.2012 , 02:20 PM | #327
Yes, if handled right I don't think that they are a bad thing. I don't think they destory communities as your real community is more your guild in my opinion. I don't think that PUGs are what make a servers community. As for nasty people in the groups, as long as there is a decent kicking system that becomes a pretty small issue and I don't think many people nowadays are that bad. Loot can also be handled on an individual basis rather than need before greed as is in LFR in Mists of Pandaria. As long a they give you reasons to play outside of instances such as world events I feel a cross server LFG tool will do little harm and plenty of good.

Valkirus's Avatar


Valkirus
04.23.2012 , 02:20 PM | #328
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterKayote View Post
WoWs same server LFG was a POS. The interface sucked and the matching sucked. You were better off using it to find groups manually. Even then much like the tool we have now, it sucked and no one used it. They eventually brought back the global LFG channel to find groups the old fashioned way. It wasnt until cross-server that they finally made the matching work correctly and efficiently, it wasnt random dungeon until x-server, and it sure as hell didnt offer rewards (specially to the rarer roles) until cross server.

Just because it failed in WoW doesnt mean it will here. Only thing a same server needs is a well populated server, some incentive to actually do an FP more than once (ever), and a welcoming interface with efficient design that people will actually use! Only thing including an Xserver does is speed up the matching, which is all nice until its all turned into a "gogogo" "insta kick/replace for any stupid reason" "I can be a jerk, nothing will ever happen" "tanks are special snowflakes" "silent drone runs" ... we have going on in WoW.

And yes, the Xserver either started or greatly multiplied those behaviors. Going on my 4th 50 now and I have yet to be in a group that doesnt talk, a group that just wants to rush through everything (other than dialogue theyve seen 100 times AT END GAME), or a group that kicks someone for every tiny mistake because a new one will instantly replace and pop up right in front of the leader. Something thats BTW happening in WoW constantly ... so much so there is a new threads/posts about it every day (seems every day I check there are 2 new ones 1, 2).

Downplay it or ignore it all you want, the proof is all over that game. Making insta-gratification groups, porting them, and removing all accountability and consequence from their communities GREATLY devalues the grouping feature of an MMO.
The system WoW uses is not perfect. But it does what it is intended to do. Gets a lot of players involved in the end game content and rewards them with gear which in a little better than small grp content. Without it...there are a ton of players who would never get to experence the end game content. Lets look at before the LFR was introduced to WoW...the players who had experenced the last boss kill in WoW was less then 10%...with the new tool added ..that number has tripled.

For myself and many friends also..I am able do 6 charectors each week for the Deathwing raids. That is a total of 8 bosses for each class everyweek. Been doing that for months now. Some runs are failed ones..true..but those are so uncommon I have yet to get it done on any char before the week has ended. I come across a jerk in the runs I do..I place them on ignore and move on. Knowing I will never have to run with that player again.

The loot roll system does have some issues. But this is being changed and improved upon in the next expansion.
Trust is something which is earned.

Hyde_v's Avatar


Hyde_v
04.23.2012 , 02:27 PM | #329
No to a cross server LFG. Merge servers first and concentrate on server only first.

If cross server ever is used, I would hope that BioWare would institute a harsher punishment policy for those that misbehave while using it. Including your inability to use the LFG tool as part of your punishement.
"And they probably redesigned the whole sickbay too. I know engineers. They love to change things." -Dr. McCoy, ST:TMP

Capthxc's Avatar


Capthxc
04.23.2012 , 02:31 PM | #330
Cross server non-ranked PvP

No cross server PvE

That's what I want. In order for PvE to actually work though the servers would have to be ironed out with decent populations, so i'd rather have this feature after they offer transfers and merges.