Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

How come I can ROFL stomp Ops/Scoundrels?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
How come I can ROFL stomp Ops/Scoundrels?

Thoop's Avatar


Thoop
04.20.2012 , 02:58 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkHelsing View Post
Did you feel the classes were balanced prior to patch 1.2?
no, i see it as more a a game of musical chairs, when the music stopped after 1.2 dps ops/scrappers ended up at or near the bottom of the pile, in good company with dps guardians. Marauders and tanksins have been elevated to the top spots. the next balance pass will no doubt change the seating order yet again.
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
I've been waiting for you, Thoop. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the poster; now *I* am the troll!
#myfreeswagreferallink- > http://www.swtor.com/r/4cqDGG

Trauglodyte's Avatar


Trauglodyte
04.20.2012 , 03:03 PM | #72
One thing to note about Ops/Scoundrels is that I'm certain BW is struggling to prevent a situation where the non-dps spec becomes a freight train. A lot of people already complain that healer Ops/Scoundrels are gods. If you pump up survivability, then you make them even more godly. If you pump up burst, we're back to pre-1.15. So, there needs to be a balance to sustainable DPS that make the class less fragile by killing faster.
To die is simply to end the cycle of pain!

HanzBlix's Avatar


HanzBlix
04.20.2012 , 03:14 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Keyran-Halcyon View Post
Just curious what server you are on? and why is it fair for other classes to be able to do awesome damage and have other abilities??? like all the other AC that have a healing tree or a tank tree?? And if you are fighting a scrapper that is trying to heal, did you ever think to stun or use your interrupt???
Nadd's Sarcophagus. There is a team of 3 scoundrels that run together which are basically unbeatable. Ninja to cap points, kill people pretty much at will (admit less since 1.2, but still quite effective), and can heal quite effectively while still pumping out good damage. More often than not, there will be 4 smugglers or more in one enemy ops group.

Ya my one interrupt on a 30 second timer can only do so much, believe me I use it. I don't complain about any other class except for them. My issue isn't that they can put out insane damage quickly, it's that they can do that, heal themselve, and go invis during combat.

WickedImage's Avatar


WickedImage
04.20.2012 , 03:20 PM | #74
I have a lvl 50 Assassin(Hybrid). I have a lvl 38 Operative(all points are currently in concealment). I prefer my operative. Yea I have some other toons like a PT BH, a Sorc, a shadow, a Sentinal, a sniper, and a Guradian but all are under 35 presently.
My Assassin is great, quite powerful and dangerous. But I feel like a nasty little witch on my Operative. I don't get what everyone is crying about when they QQ that their op/scoud is borked or garbage? I feel fine with how they play. There are times they are face-roll and times they get face-rolled. More times than not though....I'm wrecking whomever stands in front of me, especially 1v1. Yea, there are some skilled people out there and they smack my little operative around sometimes.....but by and large, I pwn on my operative. It's easily my favorite character thus far.
Ops/Scoundrels are "kind of" late bloomers. But even before I got Jarring Strike, I was consistently top 3 on my team in WZ's.
The ones the orig poster fought sound like they simply need more time to play their class and learn its strengths. I thought the Operative was weak too when I first started playing it(rolled one post nerfs since it was speculated as the weakest now). Then I learned how to play the class and found that it simply wasn't true about it being the weakest and unable to kill. I remember Back when my Assassin was considered the weakest in the game.....I didn't feel like the weakest then either. Then they nerfed us and people cried about the "already weakest class" getting an un-needed nerf when Sorcerers were considered out of control and they went untouched/got buffed? LOL @ everyone who thought such things.
Pro tip:
If <insert whatever class spec here> is so powerful, go and roll one before you cry about it. If <insert whatever class spec here> is so weak, go find a decent one and ask how they do it.
Then you can come to the boards and propose changes for it, ask "how come", and offer suggestions.....intelligently.
Killer: 87% Achiever: 67% Explorer: 27% Socializer: 20%

WickedImage's Avatar


WickedImage
04.20.2012 , 03:24 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by HanzBlix View Post
There is a team of 3 <insert class here> that run together which are basically unbeatable.
Fixed that for ya brother.
I can say the same thing for almost any class if there are 3 of them working together. That's why teamwork trumps all?
Killer: 87% Achiever: 67% Explorer: 27% Socializer: 20%

DarkHelsing's Avatar


DarkHelsing
04.20.2012 , 03:43 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by HanzBlix View Post
Scoundrels are the class I fear most even after patch 1.2.

Lemme see, can do face pounding damage.... check
heal themselves... check
combat/non combat stealth... check

No class that has the ability to go stealth should be able to heal themselves AT ALL, AND destroy you from it.

It must be a skill level thing, because the pub smugglers on our server absolutely tear people apart and are next to impossible to kill.
Interesting, I don't agree or see anything like what you are saying.
Expertise - Fear the Gear, not the Player!

Keyran-Halcyon's Avatar


Keyran-Halcyon
04.20.2012 , 03:46 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by WickedImage View Post
I have a lvl 50 Assassin(Hybrid). I have a lvl 38 Operative(all points are currently in concealment). I prefer my operative. Yea I have some other toons like a PT BH, a Sorc, a shadow, a Sentinal, a sniper, and a Guradian but all are under 35 presently.
Pro tip:
If <insert whatever class spec here> is so powerful, go and roll one before you cry about it. If <insert whatever class spec here> is so weak, go find a decent one and ask how they do it.
Then you can come to the boards and propose changes for it, ask "how come", and offer suggestions.....intelligently.
Sadly, most will completely overlook what you said because your Operative isn't in the 50's bracket. I agree though, Scoundrel/ops are still extremely dangerous in the hands of a skilled player. As for your "pro tip", you do realize your audience on the forums never really does things intelligently. It would make too much sense to do that, instead most like to experience something once, and then generalize it to everything. It goes something like this: "I got jumped by a Scoundrel and killed, that class is now OP in my book. " or now the reverse is happening, "I killed a Scoundrel before he could kill me, now they are worthless." They never take the time to look at other things or try playing that class.

Here is how Pvp works for any class and in any WZ...

Team Work>Player Skill>Group Composition> Class balance

Most players don't seem to understand this, and don't look at whats going on around them. They just see whats going on in front of them and who they are attacking.
<Art Supplies>
Captain Hûng Sôlo & Master Teh-Hauss

DarkHelsing's Avatar


DarkHelsing
04.20.2012 , 03:52 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Trauglodyte View Post
I didn't feel like the class was balanced prior to 1.2 as it was too powerful too fast. I disagree with the intent of Hidden Strike, I don't like the knock down talent, and the class can be crippled in a hurry with a knockback. Now that the DPS has been kind of balanced (there is a lot that still needs to be done to keep it on the same level of other classes), being able to sustain DPS is the biggest priority.

Prior to my Op, I ran up a v56 Pyro Merc. I feel very much in the same boat with my Op in that my only defenses are a Shield (absorbs too little on too long of a cool down), a KB, a stun/mez, a ghetto HOT, and heavy armor. Comparing that to my Op, I have the same crappy shield, no KB, a 4m stun vs 30m stun, a 10m 3 target instant mez vs a 30m single target 1.5s castable maz, a ghetto HOT (ONLY if I'm Conc), melee/ranged immunity for 3s, a stealth reset, and medium armor. To add to that, all of my attacks are 4m vs 30m so kiting isn't really an option unless I spam Sever Tendon. Different classes are different, yes. But I'm comparing uptime and survivability and if you set the HPs to being the exact same and used yourself as a target dummy, the Op dies the fastest. So, if my DPS and health should theoretically be the same as my Merc, but I take more damage, am I supposed to be balanced out PURELY by stealth and 3s of immunity against damage done by the fewest ACs in the game?

There is a lot of weighting done by BW so as to balance classes. It just feels adversly unfair on the part of the DPS Scrapper/Op. Especially when some of the tools that we have aren't what we want nor are they wanted by teh community.
Quote: Originally Posted by Trauglodyte View Post
One thing to note about Ops/Scoundrels is that I'm certain BW is struggling to prevent a situation where the non-dps spec becomes a freight train. A lot of people already complain that healer Ops/Scoundrels are gods. If you pump up survivability, then you make them even more godly. If you pump up burst, we're back to pre-1.15. So, there needs to be a balance to sustainable DPS that make the class less fragile by killing faster.
I'm trying to get a good feel for this, so forgive all the questions.

If the Operative class can burn through a target really quick but are all but rendered useless with a simple knockback, and every other class has a knock back... isn't that the balance?

If a Scoundrel cannot survive unless they kill the target they are on faster than the target kills them... isn't that the balance?

The Scoundrel to me was the class that made other players make sure they never broke off from the path. Any Operative I saw burst out on someone in a group of people was melted down almost instantly... isn't that the balance?

Again, sorry for all the questions, I just feel bad for any class I can emote to death.
Expertise - Fear the Gear, not the Player!

DarkHelsing's Avatar


DarkHelsing
04.20.2012 , 06:34 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Keyran-Halcyon View Post
Sadly, most will completely overlook what you said because your Operative isn't in the 50's bracket. I agree though, Scoundrel/ops are still extremely dangerous in the hands of a skilled player. As for your "pro tip", you do realize your audience on the forums never really does things intelligently. It would make too much sense to do that, instead most like to experience something once, and then generalize it to everything. It goes something like this: "I got jumped by a Scoundrel and killed, that class is now OP in my book. " or now the reverse is happening, "I killed a Scoundrel before he could kill me, now they are worthless." They never take the time to look at other things or try playing that class.

Here is how Pvp works for any class and in any WZ...

Team Work>Player Skill>Group Composition> Class balance

Most players don't seem to understand this, and don't look at whats going on around them. They just see whats going on in front of them and who they are attacking.
I disagree.

Team Work>Gear

That's all I really see. Unless everyone has equal gear, then I agree with your equation.
Expertise - Fear the Gear, not the Player!

DarkHelsing's Avatar


DarkHelsing
04.20.2012 , 07:56 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by WickedImage View Post
Fixed that for ya brother.
I can say the same thing for almost any class if there are 3 of them working together. That's why teamwork trumps all?
Agreed. lol
Expertise - Fear the Gear, not the Player!