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Constructive Feedback on L5R (progression block boss in Lost Island HM)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Constructive Feedback on L5R (progression block boss in Lost Island HM)

lordhelmos's Avatar


lordhelmos
04.19.2012 , 03:00 PM | #1
We cleared him with a JK tank, Shadow DPS (me), Commando, and Sage Healer.

Everyone in our group had to be on the ball, me and the JK tank were all over the interrupts. The incinerate is really punishing and has to be interrupted IMMEDIATELY as it channels down from 3 seconds and immediately does damage over time, usually doing 100% dmg during it's full duration. You can't wait, if you hit it too late the tank will be near dead after just 2 seconds.

For the floor, we generally healed through the flames and our commando took care of the adds (since I can't run through lightning storms to hit a ranged add standing in a bubble and gunning the healer).

The fight is INCREDIBLY melee unfriendly. Taking 2 melee is possible but almost a near death sentence due to more lightning storms spawning on the tank.

You need incredibly high DPS as you do not want to extend the duration of this fight. The fight is overly hard on the healer due to the insane amount of AE damage coming in from the adds and lightning spheres.

***
Here is a breakdown of the bosses abilities:

Incinerate: Main ability, uses every 12 seconds. 3 second channel that does massive damage to the tank and stacks a debuff that increases it's channeled damage. This ability is overtuned and used way too frequently (even for an experienced group). This mechanic bars any group experiencing lag from beating this boss. Missing one incinerate and allowing the tank to bake in the full duration is an auto-wipe. Cooldown should be upped in order to keep it in line with groups that have limited interrupt capabilities (such as 1 interrupter with a 12 sec CD). Sometimes the boss delays being moved and uses incinerate while in a lightning sphere. Because no melee or the tank can get to the interrupt at this time this is an auto-wipe mechanic.

Spawn adds and Experimental Cannon: The boss spawns an assortment of specimen X ranged and melee adds. The problem with ranged adds is that they hide inside lightning spheres, making them near impossible to kill as melee (yet another melee hate aspect). Overall they aren't too bad and can sort of be healed through if the tank aoe taunts them off the healer.

Arc Lightning: The lightning sphere. Puts a blue circle down on one random person and extends a lightning sphere from that person's location. Very devastating if put on the tank or melee. Makes the fight almost impossible if the group dps is comprised of all melee. Is interruptable but interrupting it DOES NOT stop the effect. He will place a sphere down whether your interrupt it or not. The damage radius of the spheres is also much larger than the actual graphic, making this ability very misleading.

Floor Lava: Random lava jets on the floor panels, moderate damage and can be healed through. Only deadly when stacked on multiple mechanics (like people in lightning spheres).

***
Strategy and Suggestions:

We basically focused on incinerate as the main issue. We interrupted incinerate and after each interrupt the tank IMMEDIATELY moved the boss away from the lightning spheres. The boss usually alternates arc lightning and incinerate. He will usually drop one sphere between incinerate casts. The reason we move the boss immediately after he incinerates is to ensure he is in a new position for an interrupt and not stuck inside a lightning orb where the melee can't stop it. Ranged DPS was mortar shotting adds and handling them, we did our best to avoid the floor lava but it was second place to incinerate and positioning the boss.

We started at the center with the tank and melee on the center square, the ranged was kiting along the edge and away from the floor. The boss was moved every time he incinerated.

YOU CANNOT MISS incinerate, ever. The main problem with this fight is several things.

Experimental Cannon and Incinerate are channeled abilities. Arc lightning also has a cast time. This makes the boss very clunky to move because he stops and casts. Because this is a positioning fight, the boss should be more responsive to movement, as the boss standing in a sphere and casting incinerate is an autowipe. The cannon targets one random raid member and does focused damage. It's way too hard on the healer to be trying to focus heal one guy and be having the party taking add damage. If anyone gets hit by a sphere they are dead, not even the healer can keep up.

Incinerate is overtuned, he casts it way too frequently for groups without a sentinel to handle. Stopping incinerate requires both the tank and interrupter DPS to be in a interrupt zen. While I can understand the fight needs to be difficult, the frequency at which he uses incinerate and it's lethality to the tank is too much to handle. It immediately does damage on cast and channels down from a full bar. It needs to be reacted to instantly, making anyone who is lagging a liability to the party. We attempted to cleanse the debuff incinerate stacks on the tank but we had no luck due to it applying the debuff and killing the tank too fast. Honestly we didn't even know if the removal worked or not because our healing was too busy tearing her hair out with heals to spare a GCD for it other than once or twice (at which I was too busy being in interrupt zen to notice if it was removable).

The boss has to be moved EVERY incinerate due to avoid the growing lightning spheres. Sometimes the boss stops and uses experimental cannon then follows up with incinerate while stuck in a sphere. We wiped every time this happened, especially if the experimental cannon hits the tank and brings him down for an incinerate to instakill him.

The fight is very melee unfriendly as well, due to the boss being stuck in lightning spheres, adds being stuck in lightning spheres, or the possibility of lightning spheres being cast in the vicinity of the tank. Having the sphere casted on the vicinity of the tank puts the group in an RNG death situation. If the boss cycles through his incinerate or experimental cannon faster than the group can move him out of the radius, the group will wipe. Sometimes the group cannot control the rate at which he moves because he stops to use a channeled ability and then becomes enveloped by a sphere, making interrupting him without a ranged interrupter impossible without costing a death.

Ranged adds in spheres are impossible for the melee to kill. Due to the melee generally taking more damage and not being able to kite around the edge to avoid flames and spheres, they are a liability in this fight.

Much of the difficulty we encountered came from the following mechanics:

-The boss cycling through his rotation faster than his movement can be controlled, causing him to be protected by a sphere when he casts incinerate next.

-The frequency at which the boss casts incinerate too difficult for the party to keep up. The interrupter cannot leave the boss for even a second. If the interrupted pauses to do anything other than watch for the interrupt and the tank misses it, it will autowipe the group. Because the tank is responsible for moving the boss, the tank is not always in range to interrupt UNLESS they are a shadow or assassin, at which their short ranged interrupt makes them optimal for this fight.

-The boss needs to cycle through his abilities slower to allow groups to deal with the layered mechanics better. The recharge on incinerate needs to be increased. The boss should not use a near instant kill mechanic that frequently. His cast speed on incinerate reminds me of pre-nerf iron fist. While L5R doesn't chain cast incinerates they still come pretty fast and the great difficulty is managing moving him while still allowing your interrupter (if its melee) to be in range to get incinerate every time. Sometimes only god decides if that's gonna happen due to randomness if lightning and floor lava. If an interrupter dies to mechanics while trying to stay in range to get incinerate, that guy deserves a medal because he was doing it right.

-Lightning spheres may want to priority target ranged DPS to make the fight more melee viable. The ranged adds should balance out if the bosses more difficult and unfair mechanics (namely incinerate) are toned down. Personally, I don't think the boss needs alot of tweaking to be "fair."

-The fight is tuned to be very melee unfriendly as the melee is dealing with the floors, the heavy damage sphere, and losing alot of DPS on the boss for a very short enrage timer on the boss. The boss might be tunable by having him radiate an aura that causes melee dps around him to take less damage from the arc lightning spheres.

****

Overall this guy is freakin' hard. Certain group compositions that lean towards melee make him even harder to downright impossible. I think some of the tweaking suggestions above might improve this encounter, make him more melee friendly, and make things a bit easier for the group as a whole. While I don't want to see this boss trivialized, I do think that he is a bit unfair right now with his mechanics to certain groups.

Unforgiving would be the best word to describe this guy. Incinerate being on such a rapid cast rotation and melting the tank in 3 seconds combined with all his other mechanics that prevent your melee interrupters from staying on him makes him hard. Increasing the time between his cast cycles and perhaps cutting melee a break with the aura mechanic I suggested above may balance him out.

Currently if anyone messed up, lags, misses an incinerate, or allows the boss to cast incinerate while in a bubble, its a done deal. Currently, it is very hard to prevent the unfavorable wipe conditions above from happening.

I would never attempt this fight with two melee in it's current state. I'm sure that we would have been toast without our commando. The boss needs to be toned to be a bit more forgiving to certain group make-ups.

dragonfor's Avatar


dragonfor
04.19.2012 , 03:08 PM | #2
There is another thread below this one with a video that explains everything without a large wall of text.

murshawursha's Avatar


murshawursha
04.19.2012 , 03:47 PM | #3
I agree, especially the part about this fight being far too unforgiving for melee DPS. There is simply too much AoE/environmental damage to deal with.

Frumph's Avatar


Frumph
04.19.2012 , 03:48 PM | #4
I agree with everything written in the OP's post.

Shigon's Avatar


Shigon
04.19.2012 , 05:22 PM | #5
If you learn the movement of the fight it is actually quite easy. My group is all melee(Sin Tank, Mara, PT, and Ops healer) and we take him down fairly easy now. Just because you can not go in there and one shot the boss, doesn't mean it's too hard. It means you need to learn the fight. Reading a strat and doing it are two different things.

Hologramx's Avatar


Hologramx
04.19.2012 , 06:23 PM | #6
Totally agreed with the OP.
Besides, due to the 1.2 nerf to Commandos, many commandos dps are not showing up anymore since the patch (at least for my guild, it is now like 1/16 instead of 5/16), which leaves us no choice but to bring 2 melees.

Either their testers on the PTS are heavy hardcores that have completely no understanding on casual players experiences or they just don't want to give away too many blackhole comms to casual players by adding a Weekly FP Mission Impossible.

goatfoam's Avatar


goatfoam
04.19.2012 , 06:38 PM | #7
I've done this twice with the following group compositions:

Tank: (DPS) Vigilance Guardian
Healer: (Healing) Sage
DPS: (Healing) Sage, (DPS) Commando

I am the DPS Guardian, and this was our first attempt (had leftovers from an Op run, as you can see by two of the roles not being filled by the proper slots). This was hard, my tanking gear is a mixture of Columi and Rakata. Incinerate was the hardest hitter, though with an 8 second cooldown it was easy enough to interrupt - even while repositioning the boss (your tank was clearly moving too far too fast while moving the boss). Unfortunately, because of this, Plasma Arc went pretty much uninterrupted the whole fight and soon the room was full of electricity. I think we hit an enrage timer because the Plasma went gigantic but we still killed him (just) with me as the sole survivor. His abilities were quite easy to figure out and we did so on the fly resulting in him being one-shotted (though we had voice comms and have played together a lot here and in other games). Incinerate can, and we therefore assumed should, be cleansed via Sage once it's been interrupted.

Tank: (Tank) Shadow
Healing: (Healing) Sage
DPS: (DPS) Guardian (DPS) Trooper

This was our second playthrough of the Flashpoint and we had proper role assignments this time as well as the knowledge of how the boss works and everybody was in full Rakata. We pretty much killed it dead.

Is it overtuned? Yeah maybe. Try the cleanse after the interrupt hits, see if that helps. I will agree that it was easily the hardest fight in there and by extension the hardest fight in any hard mode so far. I can absolutely see pugs having serious issues. I believe in difficulty curves and this should really have been the end boss in terms of difficulty.

SAMIELL's Avatar


SAMIELL
04.19.2012 , 06:41 PM | #8
Shadow tank, Vanguard dps, sage/balance dps and sage healer. Resilience out of incinerate. Interrupt the next. Tank can do that. Bubble on boss due to melee. Np, move to the back of the room and stay on one side, moving to the next If the bubble hits again. Return to center when that bubble dissapears. Ranged and heals on east and west sides. First time through took us 6 tries. Now we kill him first try. This says "F*CK YOU MELEE"! all over it but please for the love of god do not nerf it. I love that this place is basically a 4 man hardmode ops.
Everyone asked for harder content and bioware answered with this lil gem. I for one, am gratefull.
Before thinking you're always depressed, see if you just surrounded by A-holes.

DarkfallDC's Avatar


DarkfallDC
04.19.2012 , 06:45 PM | #9
Plasma arc doesn't seem to be what drops the balls of lightning. And everybody is complaining way too much about this boss. It's hard, but certainly doable. With a full melee group, it's about dragging the boss around the room. With ranged dps, it's about the ranged players grouping in the back and slowly circling about the room as the lightning balls drop.

First run in Tionese / Columni gear, we 7-8 shotted the boss.
The day after, 1 shotted. Strategy > Gear.

The only frustrating 'bug' I've seen is when the lightning ball gets dropped on me as the tank. That probably shouldn't be happening.

Edit: As for people saying the boss should have been the final boss instead of the first, I am fully against this line of reasoning. If you can't work on strategy and coordination to kill this boss, you shouldn't have the opportunity to kill the easier ones.

SAMIELL's Avatar


SAMIELL
04.19.2012 , 06:47 PM | #10
On a side note. Plasma arc is not the ability that drops the lightning bubbles. We interrupted every arc and bubble still came out.
Before thinking you're always depressed, see if you just surrounded by A-holes.