Intro:

This is a proposed change to the Sage/Sorc AC DPS/Kiting, as I feel 1.2 fails to make our class viable @ PvP (once ranked is deployed) and PvE (in some ways). The focus is PvP and is a constructive thread made for proposals, not conjecture or opinion on how un-/powerful we are or L2P issues. I have played standard (3/7/31), hybrid (0/23/18), modified standard (2/11/28; 0/13/28; 3/17/21) and have been playing since launch on this character only. I have a mix of BM/Rakata gear and I feel I have a good grasp of my flaws and strengths when compared to other characters, but with 1.2 the balance seems lop-sided.

I tried to give 1.2 a chance. I still have my AoE/CC damage, which looks good on a leaderboard, but realistically it feels like I am Brock Lesner’s backhoe tire, and “other” classes have his sledgehammer and pounding me with it. This was not the case pre 1.2 and was not due to the change in PoM proc. The buffs other classes got, along with the already inflated cc, have severely crippled Sages/Sorcs. It has gotten players to the point that most are quitting/rerolling or stubborn as hell and enduring the beatings (I am the latter). It is pretty obvious that 1.2 has made our survivability suspect, at best. With the mass re-rolls and somewhat “unwarranted” nerfs some classes were subject to makes me highly doubtful I can use my Sage will be viable in Ranked. This is just background to understand my proposed changes.

Problems (the good; the bad; the Jar-Jar):

-Sages/Sorcs were overpowered from the PvP damage output perspective: We needed a nerf, and I think another is required. I will explain more on this later.

- Our skill trees are incorrectly balanced from a role perspective: The “shared tree” is not really shared and the other two have misguided skills for the role. I thought game mechanics would have made us kiting DoTers (Balance Tree), burst DPS/Off-DPS (TK Tree) or healers (Seer Tree), but we can’t get enough in a single tree to excel at any of these. Since this was not addressed before 1.2, our flaws are now even more evident, given the nerfs and buffs that took place.

-We have no defensive CD/threat generator, but too much CC: Seems like most classes have at least one DFCD, and some with more depending on skill tree or class. There are none for our class. Our CC is the main contributor to the OP’d threads. It just so happens some of the CC is directly attached to our AoE, which is a problem.

-Most of our attacks are Force based but are kinetic damage: We have very few ways to initiate internal damage. Since we are heavy force-users, lore and role dictates that most of our attacks should be internal types and also takes armor rating out of the equation.

Proposed Changes (Can we get some of the dogmatic view of the Jedi Counslars?)

Tree Changes:

1. Swap “Two Disciplines” from the Shadow/Sin balance tree with “Assertion” from the Sage/Sorc balance tree (both are on the same tier anyway): This will give us some melee bonus on each “Project” (more on this later). This should be an easy change since it is a “shared tree”.

2. Swap “Kinetic Collapse” from the TK tree, for “Psychic Suffusion” and move that high in the TK tree: This gives more decisive need to spec high in TK for max DPS and gives Seers a better tool for survival while healing.

3. Change “Mind Ward” to ALL ATTACKs, but nerf it to max reduction @10% instead of 14%: This will help the balance tree in kiting/tanking aspirations.

4. Get rid of “Rescue” and make “Force Pull” a lower threat friendly on the seer tree and “Force Push” on the balance tree that generates high threat and “small perks” if the attackers hit someone else (an effective taunt): If we want to kite, then we need a threat generator.

5. Add a “Double Strike/Sabre Strike” talent on the TK tree: How much and what tier? Eh!! Maybe 20% and tier 3 or 4. It gives incentive to spec in the TK tree.

6. Revisit all Sage/Sorc skill trees because they are not really role defining (except maybe the Seer tree): I could go on for days about the trees, but for length considerations, I will leave it at that.

Talent Changes:

1. Nerf our AoE DAMAGE OUTPUT by 30%, and change Force in Balance to a Kinetic attack: The PoM proc was causing the issue, but if you reduce the damage on ANY PoM proc’d attack, then the number would have fell in line better. Say “instant activate, but decrease damage by 30% over a straight activated one”. As a whole, AoE is much more valuable to prevent caps/plants, but the damage made our numbers outlandish on PvP leaderboards and still does to a degree.

2. Change Mind Crush to an internal attack and Disturbance to an elemental attack and buff them 20%, and take out the “root” requirement: Mind Crush should have NOTHING to do with armor rating (unless by “mind crush” you mean sticking your head in a force-vise). It should be an attack on the person’s mind; not their head, and would fall more in-line with the lore of consulars. Only mental resistance talents that are spec’d out or talents should mitigate a withering of the mind. The Disturbance animation is a “lightning ball” so make it an attack that can only be shielded with generators or redirected/mitigated with talents.

3. Give us a talent like “Deflection” on a 2min CD: Deflection is in the Shadow/Sin pool, and should be an easy add.

4. Lock “Tumult” to Sage/Sorc only, unlock “Tumult” so we can use it against other players and buff “Tumult” 50%, increase the CD on “Tumult” to 90 sec, and keep the incapacitated requirement as is on “Tumult”: Whew!!! It’s a lot, but did I mention changes to “Tumult” are long overdue. I mean seriously. We already have limited attacks (as some call us “one-button wonders”). Why not open us up to more melee, if the range is eliminated. This could be our “Neo, matrix style, nuke” but it still would require a stunned opponent and good timing to connect (saying a breaker is available to the opponent and they are willing to use it).

5. Increase the CD of ALL CC (Force Wave, Force Stun, Force Lift)abilities by 20 Sec: This will need to be the tradeoff since it would appease the “Sage/Sorc CC is too much” crowd (resolve makes our CC ineffective at a certain point, but whatev…)

Conclusion

These are just observations and suggestions I have come up with. Overall I feel these changes will not cause an “overperformance” as BW calls it, and all classes can live with these. Even if BW implemented a few of these, our Quality of Life would greatly improve and also make us more viable for rated warzones. Even if it is just for a trial, I encourage BW to do it.

If you want to add or change ideas, feel free, but like I said comment on why the idea is bad; not anything else. I want to keep this 100. I can accept my ideas being critiqued, but fanboy; class bashing is not what this thread is about. Come correct, or don’t come at all…

TL: DR

1. Increase our kiting abilities.

2. Give us a defensive CD and a threat generator on long CD’s (aka better defense on the balance tree).

3. Nerf our AoE DMG output further.

4. Give us more attack types: Internal v Kinetic (better single target DPS).

5. Increase our CC CD’s (which are a bit much).

mods you might want to move this to the Sage/Sorc forums

no one in PvP cares about them anymore....we only care about marauders and tankasins

mods you might want to move this to the Sage/Sorc forums

 

 

no one in PvP cares about them anymore....we only care about marauders and tankasins

Well I did debate where to put this, but PvP is where the imbalance is most prevailent. I only care about tankasins and maurads too. That;s why I posted proposed changes here. And yes they are pounding me now. I am ok with their output, just give me a few more mitigation options (and don't really increase my output) and exit strategies.

Intro:

This is a proposed change to the Sage/Sorc AC DPS/Kiting, as I feel 1.2 fails to make our class viable @ PvP (once ranked is deployed) and PvE (in some ways). The focus is PvP and is a constructive thread made for proposals, not conjecture or opinion on how un-/powerful we are or L2P issues. I have played standard (3/7/31), hybrid (0/23/18), modified standard (2/11/28; 0/13/28) and have been playing since launch on this character only. I have a mix of BM/Rakata gear and I feel I have a good grasp of my flaws and strengths when compared to other characters, but with 1.2 the balance seems lop-sided.

I tried to give 1.2 a chance. I still have my AoE/CC damage, which looks good on a leaderboard, but realistically it feels like I am Brock Lesner’s backhoe tire, and “other” classes have his sledgehammer and pounding me with it. This was not the case pre 1.2 and was not due to the change in PoM proc. The buffs other classes got, along with the already inflated cc, have severely crippled Sages/Sorcs. It has gotten players to the point that most are quitting/rerolling or stubborn as hell and enduring the beatings (I am the latter). It is pretty obvious that 1.2 has made our survivability suspect, at best. With the mass re-rolls and somewhat “unwarranted” nerfs some classes were subject to makes me highly doubtful I can use my Sage will be viable in Ranked. This is just background to understand my proposed changes.

 

Problems (the good; the bad; the ugly):

-Sages/Sorcs were overpowered from the PvP damage output perspective: We needed a nerf, and I think another is required. I will explain more on this later.

- Our skill trees are incorrectly balanced from a role perspective: The “shared tree” is not really shared and the other two have misguided skills for the role. I thought game mechanics would have made us kiting DoTers (Balance Tree), burst DPS/Off-DPS (TK Tree) or healers (Seer Tree), but we can’t get enough in a single tree to excel at any of these. Since this was not addressed before 1.2, our flaws are now even more evident, given the nerfs and buffs that took place.

-We have no defensive CD/threat generator, but too much CC: Seems like most classes have at least one DFCD, and some with more depending on skill tree or class. There are none for our class. Our CC is the main contributor to the OP’d threads. It just so happens some of the CC is directly attached to our AoE, which is a problem.

-Most of our attacks are Force based but are kinetic damage: We have very few ways to initiate internal damage. Since we are heavy force-users, lore and role dictates that most of our attacks should be internal types and also takes armor rating out of the equation.

 

 

 

Proposed Changes (Can we get some of the dogmatic view of the Jedi Counslars?)

 

Tree Changes:

1. Swap “Two Disciplines” from the Shadow/Sin balance tree with “Assertion” from the Sage/Sorc balance tree (both are on the same tier anyway): This will give us some melee bonus on each “Project” (more on this later). This should be an easy change since it is a “shared tree”.

2. Swap “Kinetic Collapse” from the TK tree, for “Psychic Suffusion” and move that high in the TK tree: This gives more decisive need to spec high in TK for max DPS and gives Seers a better tool for survival while healing.

3. Change “Mind Ward” to ALL ATTACKs, but nerf it to max reduction @10% instead of 14%: This will help the balance tree in kiting/tanking aspirations.

4. Get rid of “Rescue” and make “Force Pull” a lower threat friendly on the seer tree and “Force Push” on the balance tree that generates high threat and “small perks” if the attackers hit someone else (an effective taunt): If we want to kite, then we need a threat generator.

5. Add a “Double Strike/Sabre Strike” talent on the TK tree: How much and what tier? Eh!! Maybe 20% and tier 3 or 4. It gives incentive to spec in the TK tree.

6. Revisit all Sage/Sorc skill trees because they are not really role defining (except maybe the Seer tree): I could go on for days about the trees, but for length considerations, I will leave it at that.

 

Talent Changes:

1. Nerf our AoE DAMAGE OUTPUT by 30%, and change Force in Balance to a Kinetic attack: The PoM proc was causing the issue, but if you reduce the damage on ANY PoM proc’d attack, then the number would have fell in line better. Say “instant activate, but decrease damage by 30% over a straight activated one”. As a whole, AoE is much more valuable to prevent caps/plants, but the damage made our numbers outlandish on PvP leaderboards and still does to a degree.

2. Change Mind Crush to an internal attack and Disturbance to an elemental attack and buff them 20%, and take out the “root” requirement: Mind Crush should have NOTHING to do with armor rating (unless by “mind crush” you mean sticking your head in a force-vise). It should be an attack on the person’s mind; not their head, and would fall more in-line with the lore of consulars. Only mental resistance talents that are spec’d out or talents should mitigate a withering of the mind. The Disturbance animation is a “lightning ball” so make it an attack that can only be shielded with generators or redirected/mitigated with talents.

3. Give us a talent like “Deflection” on a 2min CD: Deflection is in the Shadow/Sin pool, and should be an easy add.

4. Lock “Tumult” to Sage/Sorc only, unlock “Tumult” so we can use it against other players and buff “Tumult” 50%, increase the CD on “Tumult” to 90 sec, and keep the incapacitated requirement as is on “Tumult”: Whew!!! It’s a lot, but did I mention changes to “Tumult” are long overdue. I mean seriously. We already have limited attacks (as some call us “one-button wonders”). Why not open us up to more melee, if the range is eliminated. This could be our “Neo, matrix style, nuke” but it still would require a stunned opponent and good timing to connect (saying a breaker is available to the opponent and they are willing to use it).

5. Increase the CD of ALL CC (Force Wave, Force Stun, Force Lift)abilities by 20 Sec: This will need to be the tradeoff since it would appease the “Sage/Sorc CC is too much” crowd (resolve makes our CC ineffective at a certain point, but whatev…)

 

 

Conclusion

These are just observations and suggestions I have come up with. Overall I feel these changes will not cause an “overperformance” as BW calls it, and all classes can live with these. Even if BW implemented a few of these, our Quality of Life would greatly improve and also make us more viable for rated warzones. Even if it is just for a trial, I encourage BW to do it.

If you want to add or change ideas, feel free, but like I said comment on why the idea is bad; not anything else. I want to keep this 100. I can accept my ideas being critiqued, but fanboy; class bashing is not what this thread is about. Come correct, or don’t come at all…

 

TL: DR

1. Increase our kiting abilities.

2. Give us a defensive CD and a threat generator on long CD’s (aka better defense on the balance tree).

3. Nerf our AoE DMG output further.

4. Give us more attack types: Internal v Kinetic (better single target DPS).

5. Increase our CC CD’s (which are a bit much).

Let me preface my reply by stating I play an Inf Shadow and have from day 1. Currently valor 65, ALL received via WZ's.

Your thread has some merit, but some of the abilities you're speaking about would also affect the shadow/sin tree as they're baseline abilities for Consular/Inq

1. Tumult I can think of no reason for a mage/force wielding ranged class to have a melee ability Your proposed change here would give Sage/Sorc access to talents already in the Shadow//Sin tree effectively giving Inf/Deception 2 kicks with different cool downs one in stealth the other not, and Kenetic/? (forgot Sith tree name) 2 kicks all of which are available out of stealth. - Tumult would make Shadow OP and Kenetic even more OP than it already is.

2. CC: Increasing the CD on the stun timer, nerfs Inf/Dec. As it is we're the squishiest melee class in the game. When we go to cloak, if we don't want to get popped from it we need to use our resiliance along with it. Killing our stun timer would decrease the already pathetic survivability of the Inf/Dec tree.

3. Doublestrike/Saber Strike. Refer to what I said about tumult. There is no reason to have a force wielding ranged caster with a melee ability. That is crossing pretty close to the inf/dec tree.

4. Deflection: Again, this is a talent that comes from Shadow/Sin. I'll trade you your bubble for my deflection. It's a 50% increase to defense, not an blanket barrier to receiving damage. In other words, adding deflection would make the defenses of sage more OP than they already are.

At the end of the day, there is nothing really wrong with the CC and/or damage that Sages do from my perspective though you disagree. The only thing that I would do if I were going to change something about sage/sorc is I would make it so an AOE will not keep someone from capping a node but that affects multiple classes, not just sages.

This was an interesting read. I heartily agree that the trees for sage are all over the place, and they definitely need to spend some time to make each one fill an actual role instead of all the bizarre cross over we have now. I thought the melee additions were amusing... and given how few instant abilities we have I think it would be fun if our kiting aspect could indeed throw out a few saber swings for viable damage.

Sage/sorc is a weird creature... and mostly it just feels like it was shoe-horned into a role without any real consideration for how it fit.

Would be nice if they took the time to give the class a more in depth look and make balance changes that made sense rather than just being reactive nerfs to their metrics.

Sage/sorc's are fine they do well if played right. A defensive ability hmm isnt that what bubble is for its on a shorter cd than my vanguards 2min defense ability. If sages get a defensive ability than they shoud take away the bubble or give bubble to all other classes.

I posted a request to people like you that says learn to play. I would appreciate a video by a sage seer of actually doing good, in recruit gear, and in a pug. Until this simple request is followed through, I am going to believe that people saying that are actually not seers.

Intro:

This is a proposed change to the Sage/Sorc AC DPS/Kiting, as I feel 1.2 fails to make our class viable @ PvP (once ranked is deployed) and PvE (in some ways). The focus is PvP and is a constructive thread made for proposals, not conjecture or opinion on how un-/powerful we are or L2P issues. I have played standard (3/7/31), hybrid (0/23/18), modified standard (2/11/28; 0/13/28) and have been playing since launch on this character only. I have a mix of BM/Rakata gear and I feel I have a good grasp of my flaws and strengths when compared to other characters, but with 1.2 the balance seems lop-sided.

I tried to give 1.2 a chance. I still have my AoE/CC damage, which looks good on a leaderboard, but realistically it feels like I am Brock Lesner’s backhoe tire, and “other” classes have his sledgehammer and pounding me with it. This was not the case pre 1.2 and was not due to the change in PoM proc. The buffs other classes got, along with the already inflated cc, have severely crippled Sages/Sorcs. It has gotten players to the point that most are quitting/rerolling or stubborn as hell and enduring the beatings (I am the latter). It is pretty obvious that 1.2 has made our survivability suspect, at best. With the mass re-rolls and somewhat “unwarranted” nerfs some classes were subject to makes me highly doubtful I can use my Sage will be viable in Ranked. This is just background to understand my proposed changes.

 

Problems (the good; the bad; the ugly):

-Sages/Sorcs were overpowered from the PvP damage output perspective: We needed a nerf, and I think another is required. I will explain more on this later.

- Our skill trees are incorrectly balanced from a role perspective: The “shared tree” is not really shared and the other two have misguided skills for the role. I thought game mechanics would have made us kiting DoTers (Balance Tree), burst DPS/Off-DPS (TK Tree) or healers (Seer Tree), but we can’t get enough in a single tree to excel at any of these. Since this was not addressed before 1.2, our flaws are now even more evident, given the nerfs and buffs that took place.

-We have no defensive CD/threat generator, but too much CC: Seems like most classes have at least one DFCD, and some with more depending on skill tree or class. There are none for our class. Our CC is the main contributor to the OP’d threads. It just so happens some of the CC is directly attached to our AoE, which is a problem.

-Most of our attacks are Force based but are kinetic damage: We have very few ways to initiate internal damage. Since we are heavy force-users, lore and role dictates that most of our attacks should be internal types and also takes armor rating out of the equation.

 

 

 

Proposed Changes (Can we get some of the dogmatic view of the Jedi Counslars?)

 

Tree Changes:

1. Swap “Two Disciplines” from the Shadow/Sin balance tree with “Assertion” from the Sage/Sorc balance tree (both are on the same tier anyway): This will give us some melee bonus on each “Project” (more on this later). This should be an easy change since it is a “shared tree”.

2. Swap “Kinetic Collapse” from the TK tree, for “Psychic Suffusion” and move that high in the TK tree: This gives more decisive need to spec high in TK for max DPS and gives Seers a better tool for survival while healing.

3. Change “Mind Ward” to ALL ATTACKs, but nerf it to max reduction @10% instead of 14%: This will help the balance tree in kiting/tanking aspirations.

4. Get rid of “Rescue” and make “Force Pull” a lower threat friendly on the seer tree and “Force Push” on the balance tree that generates high threat and “small perks” if the attackers hit someone else (an effective taunt): If we want to kite, then we need a threat generator.

5. Add a “Double Strike/Sabre Strike” talent on the TK tree: How much and what tier? Eh!! Maybe 20% and tier 3 or 4. It gives incentive to spec in the TK tree.

6. Revisit all Sage/Sorc skill trees because they are not really role defining (except maybe the Seer tree): I could go on for days about the trees, but for length considerations, I will leave it at that.

 

Talent Changes:

1. Nerf our AoE DAMAGE OUTPUT by 30%, and change Force in Balance to a Kinetic attack: The PoM proc was causing the issue, but if you reduce the damage on ANY PoM proc’d attack, then the number would have fell in line better. Say “instant activate, but decrease damage by 30% over a straight activated one”. As a whole, AoE is much more valuable to prevent caps/plants, but the damage made our numbers outlandish on PvP leaderboards and still does to a degree.

2. Change Mind Crush to an internal attack and Disturbance to an elemental attack and buff them 20%, and take out the “root” requirement: Mind Crush should have NOTHING to do with armor rating (unless by “mind crush” you mean sticking your head in a force-vise). It should be an attack on the person’s mind; not their head, and would fall more in-line with the lore of consulars. Only mental resistance talents that are spec’d out or talents should mitigate a withering of the mind. The Disturbance animation is a “lightning ball” so make it an attack that can only be shielded with generators or redirected/mitigated with talents.

3. Give us a talent like “Deflection” on a 2min CD: Deflection is in the Shadow/Sin pool, and should be an easy add.

4. Lock “Tumult” to Sage/Sorc only, unlock “Tumult” so we can use it against other players and buff “Tumult” 50%, increase the CD on “Tumult” to 90 sec, and keep the incapacitated requirement as is on “Tumult”: Whew!!! It’s a lot, but did I mention changes to “Tumult” are long overdue. I mean seriously. We already have limited attacks (as some call us “one-button wonders”). Why not open us up to more melee, if the range is eliminated. This could be our “Neo, matrix style, nuke” but it still would require a stunned opponent and good timing to connect (saying a breaker is available to the opponent and they are willing to use it).

5. Increase the CD of ALL CC (Force Wave, Force Stun, Force Lift)abilities by 20 Sec: This will need to be the tradeoff since it would appease the “Sage/Sorc CC is too much” crowd (resolve makes our CC ineffective at a certain point, but whatev…)

 

 

Conclusion

These are just observations and suggestions I have come up with. Overall I feel these changes will not cause an “overperformance” as BW calls it, and all classes can live with these. Even if BW implemented a few of these, our Quality of Life would greatly improve and also make us more viable for rated warzones. Even if it is just for a trial, I encourage BW to do it.

If you want to add or change ideas, feel free, but like I said comment on why the idea is bad; not anything else. I want to keep this 100. I can accept my ideas being critiqued, but fanboy; class bashing is not what this thread is about. Come correct, or don’t come at all…

 

TL: DR

1. Increase our kiting abilities.

2. Give us a defensive CD and a threat generator on long CD’s (aka better defense on the balance tree).

3. Nerf our AoE DMG output further.

4. Give us more attack types: Internal v Kinetic (better single target DPS).

5. Increase our CC CD’s (which are a bit much).

Sorry, those ideas are horrible. You actually want a talent that increases our damage on Sabre Strike/Double Strike, even if they're totally useless because Willpower/Power does nothing for them as far as damage modification is concerned. You should never use those abilities as a Sage/Sorc.

Sorry, those ideas are horrible. You actually want a talent that increases our damage on Sabre Strike/Double Strike, even if they're totally useless because Willpower/Power does nothing for them as far as damage modification is concerned. You should never use those abilities as a Sage/Sorc.

Your disdain seems a bit mismatched when you yourself offered a solution obliquely in your comment. There is no reason Sage melee abilities (all two of them) should be modified by STR. It can't be a difficult issue if they buffed those melee abilities to also make them modified by Willpower (like assassin melee abilities.) Furthermore, the reason those abilities are so worthless right now is because of how weak they are. Were they to be buffed it would increase their utility.

Sorry, those ideas are horrible. You actually want a talent that increases our damage on Sabre Strike/Double Strike, even if they're totally useless because Willpower/Power does nothing for them as far as damage modification is concerned. You should never use those abilities as a Sage/Sorc.

Balmuck: Our melee is horrible, that is why we dont use it. Weapon damage is used in conjuction (and a part of the damage equation/rotation) with tech/force powers for every other character (to the best of my knowledge) except for ours. That needs to change.

Caceyn: You make some good points but just some clarification here:

1. Tumult I can think of no reason for a mage/force wielding ranged class to have a melee ability Your proposed change here would give Sage/Sorc access to talents already in the Shadow//Sin tree effectively giving Inf/Deception 2 kicks with different cool downs one in stealth the other not, and Kenetic/? (forgot Sith tree name) 2 kicks all of which are available out of stealth. - Tumult would make Shadow OP and Kenetic even more OP than it already is..

2. CC: Increasing the CD on the stun timer, nerfs Inf/Dec. As it is we're the squishiest melee class in the game. When we go to cloak, if we don't want to get popped from it we need to use our resiliance along with it. Killing our stun timer would decrease the already pathetic survivability of the Inf/Dec tree. .

3. Doublestrike/Saber Strike. Refer to what I said about tumult. There is no reason to have a force wielding ranged caster with a melee ability. That is crossing pretty close to the inf/dec tree.

4. Deflection: Again, this is a talent that comes from Shadow/Sin. I'll trade you your bubble for my deflection. It's a 50% increase to defense, not an blanket barrier to receiving damage. In other words, adding deflection would make the defenses of sage more OP than they already are.This is not your only defensive CD though. You have Resiliance and Kinetic Ward. I would trade for any those; no problem.

These are the exact replys I am looking for BTW. thanks for keeping it civil and real.

The only change sages/sorcs really need right now is an improvement tothe upper tiers of lightning (and whatever the sage equivalent is).

Lightning strike needs to be made more effective by talents late in the tree (it should receive a flat damage bonus and force cost reduction to make it just as efficient as force lightning for a heavy lightning sorceror) and Thundering blast needs to be reworked entirely - it should have a 100% -damage- bonus against afflicted targets, rather than a 100% critical bonus, lightning sorcs already run around with 40% crit chance, they dont need an ability that guarantees a critical.

Your other suggested changes are unnecessary.

How about they just amplify the Dmg of lightning strike so it crits for like 5k

That'd be a problem for madness sorcerors, who can instant lightning strike with wrath procs.

Madness damage output is FINE right now, lightning is what needs an improvement. Thundering blast should be able to crit for 5k+ considering the 31 point placement and it's 2 second cast time, which is why changing the bonus from 100% critical chance on afflicted targets to +100% damage dealt on afflicted targets would be the most ideal change for lightning spec. With that, you'd be able to hit for 2-3k against afflicted targets, and crit for 4-5k.

That'd be a problem for madness sorcerors, who can instant lightning strike with wrath procs.

 

Madness damage output is FINE right now, lightning is what needs an improvement. Thundering blast should be able to crit for 5k+ considering the 31 point placement and it's 2 second cast time, which is why changing the bonus from 100% critical chance on afflicted targets to +100% damage dealt on afflicted targets would be the most ideal change for lightning spec. With that, you'd be able to hit for 2-3k against afflicted targets, and crit for 4-5k.

I don't remember if I did, but I do agree that the top tier lightning/TK talent needs to be changed to "instant" and maybe a slight buff (it theoretically should be your strongest attack, which it isn't). I am all for top tier changes in the TK/Lite tree, but the other stuff is necessary regardless of tree you are in. They are QoL changes. Nothing too overpowering, but helpful....

I also should have changed the title of my thread, I propose that the Balance/Madness tree has enough offense but not enough defense/kiting. Have you tried and do you think there is enough defense in the Balance/Madness Tree to ward against any other class besides its mirror? Most of the defense is to prevent DoT damage, who else actually DoTs in this game?

I have a great deal of success in both pvp and pve with my madness sorceror. Your survivability comes from the fact that you can constantly keep moving while dealing damage with your DoTs, and your DoTs restore health. I almost never have issues with people actually cleansing off my DoTs, pvp is usually too frantic for enemies to even notice that they have those debuffs.

I also play lethality with my sniper, which focuses just as heavily on damage over time effects, and that works very well in pvp too.

IMO, madness is set up perfectly as-is, it doesnt need nerfs, it doesnt need buffs. The only thing I'd change about the spec right now is adding a talent like the one lethality snipers/operatives got with the 1.2 patch: Lingering Poisons, which re-applies your DoTs if they get cleansed or when they naturally expire.