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<Crux> 4/4 HM Cleared


Raptiq's Avatar


Raptiq
04.17.2012 , 10:57 AM | #1
As a very new guild who didn't even make it onto the PTS 1.2 beta, we're pretty proud with how fast we were able to clear out HM EC. Our Kephess kill went down last night 17 seconds before the servers went down (didn't even get to distribute loot).

Here's a gallery of screenshots. http://cruxguild.com/gallery/m/4018703/album/58853

We spent about 8-10 hours on Kephess Sunday/Monday with many group comps, perfecting our strategy as much as we could. As you can see from the screenshot, we haven't quite got the last phase down although everything was perfect till ~30%.

As we look towards this new week we hope to get 4/4 HM 16M as well! Loving the new challenge over past content.
Erix - Assassin Tank - Guildleader
<Crux> - The Bastion
CruxGuild.com

xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
04.17.2012 , 11:08 AM | #2
swtor.raidranks.com
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
#4 World | #2 US | EC16 HM

pure_laced's Avatar


pure_laced
04.17.2012 , 11:15 AM | #3
More proof 8man is easier than 16man.
Cali Killed Nox
Genshen 50: Powertech | Guardian | Assassin | Sniper | Sage
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xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
04.17.2012 , 11:35 AM | #4
8 man is significantly easier, I've cleared both.
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
#4 World | #2 US | EC16 HM

cshouston's Avatar


cshouston
04.17.2012 , 11:41 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by pure_laced View Post
More proof 8man is easier than 16man.
Perhaps, by virtue of not having to carry any bads just to fill a roster, and being able to coordinate better, sure. Not everyone in a 16 man might be as focused or prepared as those in a tighter 8 man group. However, mobs aren't going to hit harder since tanks are still the same characters with the same defenses regardless of group size. Healers have more people to worry about, but you should have twice as many healers anyway.

4 guilds have completed 16-man hard. 8 guilds have completed 8-man hard. How many more 8 man guilds do you think are out there, though? A LOT more than there are 16 man guilds, I'll wager. The ratio seems about right to me in that case. Also, it's possible that some guilds are stuck due to the supposed invisible lightning spire bug (which we didn't encounter, so maybe it only occurs in 16 mans?). If that is the stumbling block as some have claimed, then if it weren't for that, the clears on 16 man would likely be higher.

Right now, some mechanics on 16 man are either not working as intended, or deliberately easier than they are in 8man.

Finally, and despite the history between our guilds and the business with Artacks (which I was not a part of, so I could truly care less about), this is not meant as an insult or an offensive jab... but when CKN progresses further in 16 man perhaps then your comment will carry more weight. Of course, the opposite holds true for me, since I haven't personally completed any encounters on hard mode with a 16 man ops group. I'm not above reproach.

I firmly believe that Gabe meant what he said at the summit when he said the difficulties are targeted to be even and relative to the scale of the encounter. In fact, he said that some stats would be tuned *down* for 16 man due to the increased coordination required in dealing with a larger ops size.

pure_laced's Avatar


pure_laced
04.17.2012 , 12:03 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by cshouston View Post
Perhaps, by virtue of not having to carry any bads just to fill a roster, and being able to coordinate better, sure. Not everyone in a 16 man might be as focused or prepared as those in a tighter 8 man group. However, mobs aren't going to hit harder since tanks are still the same characters with the same defenses regardless of group size. Healers have more people to worry about, but you should have twice as many healers anyway.

4 guilds have completed 16-man hard. 8 guilds have completed 8-man hard. How many more 8 man guilds do you think are out there, though? A LOT more than there are 16 man guilds, I'll wager. The ratio seems about right to me in that case. Also, it's possible that some guilds are stuck due to the supposed invisible lightning spire bug (which we didn't encounter, so maybe it only occurs in 16 mans?). If that is the stumbling block as some have claimed, then if it weren't for that, the clears on 16 man would likely be higher.

Right now, some mechanics on 16 man are either not working as intended, or deliberately easier than they are in 8man.

Finally, and despite the history between our guilds and the business with Artacks (which I was not a part of, so I could truly care less about), this is not meant as an insult or an offensive jab... but when CKN progresses further in 16 man perhaps then your comment will carry more weight.

I firmly believe that Gabe meant what he said at the summit when he said the difficulties are targeted to be even and relative to the scale of the encounter. In fact, he said that some stats would be tuned *down* for 16 man due to the increased coordination required in dealing with a larger ops size.
8man Tanks - 14k hit with a cd on tank with Incinerate armor.
16 man Tanks - 24k hit with a cd on tank with Incinerate armor.

Theoretically, you can avoid tank swapping on Firebrand in 8 man provided cd's are up and healers are aware. Cannot on 16 man. That is just one example of the dmg discrepancies between the two, and I am sure there are many more.

About carrying bads? I will reserve my comments on this topic. unfortunately.

Artacks? I have zero idea who that is, or what you are referring too so not sure how that ties into the conversation and history between the two guilds. Irrelevant imho anyway to how 8 man is easier than 16. Regarding our progression, it is what it is right now. We are recruiting to fill spots regarding my previously reserved comment. We are consistently hitting low enrage on two tanks, so its a tweak here and there to up a little dps and we should have it down. Either way, doesn't matter, we will get there eventually.
Cali Killed Nox
Genshen 50: Powertech | Guardian | Assassin | Sniper | Sage
Guild Website | Stream | Twitter

xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
04.17.2012 , 12:15 PM | #7
You hit enrage on tanks on 16?

On the PTS we learned the enrage for 8 was tight for tanks, but on 16 man the enrage timers for all the fights feel nonexistent. That's the one thing we've found easier about 16 man, and it's due to the armor debuffs currently stacking.

The reason 8 man is so easy compared to 16 man comes down to one thing alone; spacing and communication. Communicating between 8 players is a world different than 16, and for anything that requires reaction-- especially learning new content-- the communication gap is astounding. As a perfectionist and a raid leader, in 8 man raids I can watch every single player and see who could perform better, on a 16 man scale, I can't personally monitor every member of the raid.

As for the other part, spacing, it's obvious. On every fight save kephiss there is some aoe mechanic where being spaced out makes things tremendously easier. 16 man will be the figure head for progression, as it has been in previous games, and 8 man guilds will continue to be viewed in a more casual light because it's significantly less work on everyone to assemble a core and lead the group.
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
#4 World | #2 US | EC16 HM

cshouston's Avatar


cshouston
04.17.2012 , 12:15 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by pure_laced View Post
8man Tanks - 14k hit with a cd on tank with Incinerate armor.
16 man Tanks - 24k hit with a cd on tank with Incinerate armor.

Theoretically, you can avoid tank swapping on Firebrand in 8 man provided cd's are up and healers are aware. Cannot on 16 man. That is just one example of the dmg discrepancies between the two, and I am sure there are many more.

About carrying bads? I will reserve my comments on this topic. unfortunately.

Artacks? I have zero idea who that is, or what you are referring too so not sure how that ties into the conversation and history between the two guilds. Irrelevant imho anyway to how 8 man is easier than 16. Regarding our progression, it is what it is right now. We are recruiting to fill spots regarding my previously reserved comment. We are consistently hitting low enrage on two tanks, so its a tweak here and there to up a little dps and we should have it down. Either way, doesn't matter, we will get there eventually.
Okay, I see what you're saying about Incinerate, but frankly the tank with the debuff should be swapping to Stormcaller regardless. I still believe Gabe regarding his comments on relative difficulty. Having pushed progression right behind Condemned for Tier 1 in 16 man, and now 8 man for Tier 2 (believe me, we understand your woes regarding recruiting at the moment), I can see the issue from both sides and think it's unfair to belittle anyone's accomplishment. Especially not by claiming its "easier" to accomplish with fewer people. Particularly in this tier of content, I just don't believe that is true at all.

As for my comment about Artacks (a.k.a. Riddle, the guy who hates Nerf Dialogue even though everyone he has problems with has moved on to other games), I was only illustrating that I don't have any agenda or harbor animosity towards your guild in the way some of your members seem to towards ours. I felt the need to do so before I said anything else, so my comment wouldn't seem as though I were just trolling you. I'm sure you guys will clear the zone in due time.

cshouston's Avatar


cshouston
04.17.2012 , 12:18 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by xenofire View Post
You hit enrage on tanks on 16?

On the PTS we learned the enrage for 8 was tight for tanks, but on 16 man the enrage timers for all the fights feel nonexistent. That's the one thing we've found easier about 16 man, and it's due to the armor debuffs currently stacking.

The reason 8 man is so easy compared to 16 man comes down to one thing alone; spacing and communication. Communicating between 8 players is a world different than 16, and for anything that requires reaction-- especially learning new content-- the communication gap is astounding. As a perfectionist and a raid leader, in 8 man raids I can watch every single player and see who could perform better, on a 16 man scale, I can't personally monitor every member of the raid.

As for the other part, spacing, it's obvious. On every fight save kephiss there is some aoe mechanic where being spaced out makes things tremendously easier. 16 man will be the figure head for progression, as it has been in previous games, and 8 man guilds will continue to be viewed in a more casual light because it's significantly less work on everyone to assemble a core and lead the group.
I think that's unfortunate, and I would think so even if we were still fielding a 16 man roster. Heck, I'll STILL think so once we pick up a few more solid players who actually show up regularly .

Essentially, though, what you're saying is that people are going to be viewed as superior not because the fights are any harder mechanically, but because they have to deal with more crap.

edit: I feel bad hijacking this guild's thread. Sorry Crux.

FuzionR's Avatar


FuzionR
04.17.2012 , 12:33 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by cshouston View Post

As for my comment about Artacks (a.k.a. Riddle, the guy who hates Nerf Dialogue even though everyone he has problems with has moved on to other games), I was only illustrating that I don't have any agenda or harbor animosity towards your guild in the way some of your members seem to towards ours. I felt the need to do so before I said anything else, so my comment wouldn't seem as though I were just trolling you. I'm sure you guys will clear the zone in due time.
You realize he doesn't even play anymore and you still talk about him... Obsessed much?
Fuzion Assassin Naddist Rebels Empire
Anesthesia We Are Recruiting!
5/5 EV NM 5/5 KP NM