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The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

Oldgrimm's Avatar


Oldgrimm
04.20.2012 , 07:56 AM | #701
Quote: Originally Posted by DieAlteHexe View Post
Why should SWTOR have been a sandbox game? BW pretty clearly wanted a story-driven MMO and not a sandbox game.

I looked into Archage and thought "yeah, this could be the game some folks have been looking for". I hope it is and I hope those who are looking forward to it finally find their "home" like so many of us have here.
In the leveling process I can see clearly, that SWTOR is a story driven MMO. But please help me, where is this "story driven" after reaching the lvl-cap?
Your argument is valid, but on the long term the Lvl50 content, is the content what matters most.

And I could be too pessimistic, but I dont see much of a story driven MMO in the endgame.
Or is it the purpose in SWTOR to play all the 8 storylines to lvl 50?
What comes then?

OK, we could count the idea of a story driven MMO as an innovation, but the final implementation failed.

DarthVindictus's Avatar


DarthVindictus
04.20.2012 , 07:57 AM | #702
Quote: Originally Posted by DieAlteHexe View Post
Why should SWTOR have been a sandbox game? BW pretty clearly wanted a story-driven MMO and not a sandbox game.

I looked into Archage and thought "yeah, this could be the game some folks have been looking for". I hope it is and I hope those who are looking forward to it finally find their "home" like so many of us have here.
I'm not big on sandbox games myself (usually see them as a dev excuse for not making content, claiming community driven content will take its place but that ends up being nothing but open world pvp and grinding) but when you really look at what TOR is as a themepark MMO, you find out that the model really isn't ideal for a star wars MMO.

It's only apparent in a few locations but...

As imperial you play in areas on corellia where there's republic and resistance fighters everywhere, like you land basically in a hot spot of resistance. On Republic side, you're in areas with Imperials everywhere.

It doesn't feel organic. We should be on our respective sides but we should have to cross the front lines to encounter republic NPC's.

Questing areas need to overlap more, it would encourage more open world PVP, and make the planets feel more organic. The current game design doesn't accomplish this and it shatters immersion. Doesn't help that aside from phased instances, mobs are just standing around in the middle of nowhere waiting to be attacked. That's a drawback of MMO's that have exp/level systems across the board, even GW2 with its dynamic event system still has mobs standing around just waiting to be killed.. not as many and there are more enemies that move with purpose, but the mobs standing around waiting to die are still there.

I don't think I'll ever see an MMO that feels fully organic the way a single player elder scrolls game feels, where you don't have mobs just standing around waiting to die, populations of creatures seem somewhat realistic, etc.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar


JeramieCrowe
04.20.2012 , 07:58 AM | #703
Quote: Originally Posted by Oldgrimm View Post
In the leveling process I can see clearly, that SWTOR is a story driven MMO. But please help me, where is this "story driven" after reaching the lvl-cap?
Your argument is valid, but on the long term the Lvl50 content, is the content what matters most.
It's coming. The content has already been written a year in advance for the continuation of all 8 storylines well past 50. Why do you think your screen says "Interlude" at 50? Open war is coming, along with more chapters to our class stories. BioWare has already stated that.

In the meantime, there's still plenty to do.
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DieAlteHexe's Avatar


DieAlteHexe
04.20.2012 , 08:10 AM | #704
Quote: Originally Posted by Oldgrimm View Post
In the leveling process I can see clearly, that SWTOR is a story driven MMO. But please help me, where is this "story driven" after reaching the lvl-cap?

In an expansion most likely.

Your argument is valid, but on the long term the Lvl50 content, is the content what matters most.

Which, alas, rarely comes fast enough.

And I could be too pessimistic, but I dont see much of a story driven MMO in the endgame.
Or is it the purpose in SWTOR to play all the 8 storylines to lvl 50?
What comes then?

OK, we could count the idea of a story driven MMO as an innovation, but the final implementation failed.
The game isn't over yet. That's why you see the "interlude" bit. It is an MMO that has not yet been out six months. Expansions usually take between six months and a year to manifest, bringing a higher level cap, more quests, more content, more raid/PvP etc.
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-- It's the journey, not the destination. --

DarthVindictus's Avatar


DarthVindictus
04.20.2012 , 08:11 AM | #705
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
It's coming. The content has already been written a year in advance for the continuation of all 8 storylines well past 50. Why do you think your screen says "Interlude" at 50? Open war is coming, along with more chapters to our class stories. BioWare has already stated that.

In the meantime, there's still plenty to do.
raising the level cap will 100% kill my interest. I still eventually want to come back and make an agent and a knight for the story but raising level caps is stupid and unnecessary. It only replaces content rather than expanding it, and gives the illusion of progression while your character stays largely the same.

Had to edit since Bioware showed their propensity for editing criticism to make it look like a compliment yet again.

DieAlteHexe's Avatar


DieAlteHexe
04.20.2012 , 08:12 AM | #706
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVindictus View Post
...I don't think I'll ever see an MMO that feels fully organic the way a single player elder scrolls game feels, where you don't have mobs just standing around waiting to die, populations of creatures seem somewhat realistic, etc.
I don't think so either, at least not any time soon. Couple of reasons...

1. Big bucks invested in what sells hence fairly formulaic MMOs, drat it all.

2. Technology needs to get a bit further so that horizons can be stretched.
---------------------------------------------------------------

-- It's the journey, not the destination. --

Oldgrimm's Avatar


Oldgrimm
04.20.2012 , 08:12 AM | #707
Quote: Originally Posted by JeramieCrowe View Post
It's coming. The content has already been written a year in advance for the continuation of all 8 storylines well past 50. Why do you think your screen says "Interlude" at 50? Open war is coming, along with more chapters to our class stories. BioWare has already stated that.
I'm glad, that there are people out there, who are so easily entertained.
But, after 2 content-patches there are some disbelievers, who dont think that these flowery words are in fact the truth.

Quote:
In the meantime, there's still plenty to do.
And what exactly?
As a dedicated PvP player I already know, that this game wasnt designed for our kind.
For dedicated PvE players, there is not that plenty to do either.
So yes, SWTOR will be a field test for me how many real casual player are out there, because this game is clearly made for the casual Joe.

GreySix's Avatar


GreySix
04.20.2012 , 08:13 AM | #708
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVindictus View Post
GW2 has 3 main storylines per race (5 races, that's 15 main stories, potentially more if the other choices alter them to a large extent), that are altered by a few other decisions in your character Bio (haven't figured out to what extent yet), along with branching choices that are NOT based on a morality system, IE my Ash Legion Charr Thief had a story somewhat like the Imperial Agent line, I infiltrated a base in disguise discovered the enemy's plans, and freed a prisoner from the Blood Legion. I questioned him and he said his entire warband was wiped out. So I had a chance to recruit him or let him go become a Gladium (a Charr without a Warband, which is shameful in their culture), to recruit him I had to pass a speech check, charm, ferocity or dignity, which you can fail. Now you don't recruit him as a companion (those don't exist, thankfully), but every time you go back to your home instance, he is there, small change, but a person you saved is permanently there, rather than just a mail. Then I told of the enemy's plans to my superiors, and had to make a choice.. which assassination target would I protect? The other would be protected by a Rookie with no field experience. I didn't finish this one yet but I'm predicting that I will succeed and he will fail, and it will branch my story.
Well, that all sounds groovy, but one question for you:

Does it deal with Star Wars?

If no, then you can keep your D&D elves, gnomes, hobbits, and freaks. Thanks, but no thanks.

DieAlteHexe's Avatar


DieAlteHexe
04.20.2012 , 08:15 AM | #709
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthVindictus View Post
raising the level cap will 100% kill my interest. I still eventually want to come back and make an agent and a knight for the story.
Why is that? Most folk enjoy advancing in levels and it's quite a common complaint that it takes so long for expansion/updates to increase level-cap.
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-- It's the journey, not the destination. --

Geeluc's Avatar


Geeluc
04.20.2012 , 08:16 AM | #710
Quote: Originally Posted by Oldgrimm View Post
And what exactly?
As a dedicated PvP player I already know, that this game wasnt designed for our kind.
For dedicated PvE players, there is not that plenty to do either.
So yes, SWTOR will be a field test for me how many real casual player are out there, because this game is clearly made for the casual Joe.
Seriously?

I consider myself an 'average joe' of a gamer and I don't think the game is made for me at all! Never got into PvP or the grouping. Once you hit 50, there's the 'wash, rinse, repeats' of the dailies to do, but that's not nearly enough to keep a causal player like me playing.

I think it's more aimed at the PvP'ers/FP/Raiders.
Putting the smug into Smuggler