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Nerf Denova?


CrunkShizzle's Avatar


CrunkShizzle
04.16.2012 , 12:15 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by krinaman View Post
It either needs nerfed or raiding for "casuals" is over in this game.

Not everyone considers wiping all night trying to learn the dance steps as fun. Many will come into this place wipe a half a dozen times and just quit raiding.

Then when it's down to 5% of the population raiding it won't make sense to devote a bunch of devs to that content.
i wonder what the casuals will do at lvl 50 then

im assuming,if the casuals leave this games probably goin free to play since it doesnt really seem to appeal to anyone other then casuals

JCisneros's Avatar


JCisneros
04.16.2012 , 12:37 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Menthro View Post
Then WHY are they playing an MMORPG? I really do not get that, why do you play a game that is made to challenge you if you do not WANT a challenge? Maybe the synapses in my brain are broken or something but it just doesn't make sense to me at all. I mean there are many other games out there that will give you that experience you want, so why play the one type of game that isn't supposed to hand it to you?
You refuse to see the point. You are making this argument from "this is the way it ought to be" and that scans fine for those of us who raid regularly. The "normal" or "story" mode is to entice the more casual player to participate in Ops. Having solid, across the board participation in Ops makes it easier to walk in and make an argument for more Ops at the high end...and more nightmare mode stuff.

Hard core raiders (read here, us) are outnumbered 9/1. That means the casual players will get what they want by dint of sheer numbers.

As for the rest of your post...people play MMO's for any number of reasons. E.g.

1. To escape their wretched, everyday lives.

2. To be a different person than yourself.

3. To play (at whatever level of difficulty) with friends.

A challenge is not necessarily the primary concern of the casual MMO player, and in fact, I suspect that "challenge" is way down on the list of reasons for casual players. That is why being a developer of an MMO is a thankless and unforgiving job at times, having to strike the balance between disparate groups of human beings, all that play for different reasons.

As for me? Bring it on, I want to learn hard fights and my role in them. Yes, challenge is one of my primary gaming reasons for raiding. But you act as if this is the way it should be for everyone...and that just isn't reasonable.

JC

Menthro's Avatar


Menthro
04.16.2012 , 12:53 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by JCisneros View Post
You refuse to see the point. You are making this argument from "this is the way it ought to be" and that scans fine for those of us who raid regularly. The "normal" or "story" mode is to entice the more casual player to participate in Ops. Having solid, across the board participation in Ops makes it easier to walk in and make an argument for more Ops at the high end...and more nightmare mode stuff.

Hard core raiders (read here, us) are outnumbered 9/1. That means the casual players will get what they want by dint of sheer numbers.

As for the rest of your post...people play MMO's for any number of reasons. E.g.

1. To escape their wretched, everyday lives.

2. To be a different person than yourself.

3. To play (at whatever level of difficulty) with friends.

A challenge is not necessarily the primary concern of the casual MMO player, and in fact, I suspect that "challenge" is way down on the list of reasons for casual players. That is why being a developer of an MMO is a thankless and unforgiving job at times, having to strike the balance between disparate groups of human beings, all that play for different reasons.

As for me? Bring it on, I want to learn hard fights and my role in them. Yes, challenge is one of my primary gaming reasons for raiding. But you act as if this is the way it should be for everyone...and that just isn't reasonable.

JC
I just really see it as a very slippery slope.
Peace through firepower. Lots of firepower.


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Maltuvion's Avatar


Maltuvion
04.16.2012 , 01:17 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by krinaman View Post
And what about those people who have no desire to do that?



The dance as I put it is the learning the mechanics and how to deal with them.
They realize they're genetic garbage and go do something less demanding than Denova storymode (rofl), which they enjoy instead? Or better yet, they go learn fundamental raiding skills in KP and EV, to the extent that is possible.

If they don't want to learn fight mechanics but instead just beat on a (loot) piņata... then why don't they just go whack a dummy in the fleet? Honestly. You make it out as if anything even remotely resembling a challenge is a sin. Welfare(state?) equating loser-factory much?

Vankris's Avatar


Vankris
04.16.2012 , 01:36 AM | #45
i think it's fine.

We only beat the first boss one night and try the second boss the other night but i feel the challenge is reasonable.

the night we tried the second boss, the two tank, we didn't know jack about what to do and just try to read the debuff and open our eyes, at the end of the night, we have i think a solid strat in place and next night, with practice it will fall (unless there is a special something happening at low HP)

it may mean we will no clean the raid the first week, which is totally fine, and normal. I remember vanilla/TBC where we would down a new boss every week or every two weeks, working slowly toward the end boss and getting ready to move to the next tier.

Don't be in a hurry to destroy everything, enjoy the ride, the learning. And i disagree with what someone say. You can wipe all night and yet, spend an excellent, fun evening with friend.

Onibubu's Avatar


Onibubu
04.16.2012 , 02:19 AM | #46
Nope, the difficulty of Storymode is fine.
Totaly doeable with Full-Columi gear.

We downed the first boss in our seconds try, without reading up a guide or playing before on the PTS.
Yes the tankboss is a little bit tricky and sort of a "blocker" but the other two are fine tuned as well.

Also the healnerf is fine.
We played through this raid with two sage heals and it was not realy a problem.
Of course if someone stands in voidzones or you just have a bad healer then this would be a problem.
But I like the nerf, now you can see who is a good healer and who is a bad one!
Knights of the Shadows, Vanjervalis Chain - Republik
T1:10/10 NM T2:4/4 HM
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Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
04.16.2012 , 02:59 AM | #47
I'm in a casual guild, I regard myself a casual player. And it's not only a time issue but a skill issue as well, I'm at best a mediocre player (tunnel vision, slow reaction times, poor manual dexterity). I think me and my guildies adequately represent the target audience for Story Mode.

Having said all that, we tried Explosive Conflict last night and could kill the first boss(es) on the fifth try, if I recall correctly. It's actually quite an intuitive fight, the only thing that might be tough to figure out without a guide is the requirement to switch tanks every time they leap to each other. I don't have time to keep looking at my debuff bar during fights But 1) not standing in red target markers should be elementary 2) the game warns you with BIG RED LETTERS to stay away from Toth when he goes berserk.

It's absolutely doable, watch a quick video guide (there's a good one that is a whole 5 minutes long) if you want to speed up the learning process. I was one of the tanks, in full Columi (with crafted Rakata belt and armguards), and we could down them even after one of the healers - two Sage healers, btw, just re-learning their stuff after the nerfs - died after eating up two doses of spikes right at the end when the bosses were around 5%. No need to nerf it, it's actually a very forgiving fight as we made some mistakes during the process (me being out of range to taunt the other boss when we had to switch etc.) and still beat them.

Kayes's Avatar


Kayes
04.16.2012 , 03:12 AM | #48
I don't get you people. If you can't beat it in 1-2 hours it's too hard, if you can beat it in 1-2 hours you cry there isn't enough content after 1 week... Make up your minds!
DPS is science, healing is an art.

tiptaptoe's Avatar


tiptaptoe
04.16.2012 , 04:06 AM | #49
Difficulty is fine for both, nice to actually have a challenge of an evening rather than rolling through it in a day. None of us have full Rakata and so far its been difficult yet entertaining.

+ rep to Bioware. (If only my client would stop crashing!)

xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
04.16.2012 , 04:10 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Dee-Jay View Post
We're still less than a week into the new content. I'd hold out a little with the nerf cries until we have a better feel for the thing.

I agree that the healer nerfs probably contribute a lot to the enhanced difficulty.
The healer nerfs were insignificant. I healed as a sorc for all the encounters on 8 hard mode on the PTS, and I didn't notice anything meaningful other than I had to manage my force better.
Guildmaster of The Remnant on The Harbinger
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