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Nerf Denova?


mzhou's Avatar


mzhou
04.23.2012 , 01:05 PM | #201
What's fun about rolling through everything in only a few attempts? There is nothing fun about a tank and spank. The fun part of raiding is coordinating, learning the mechanics, and then finally downing the boss. That's where the real satisfaction comes from. If my guild could do HM Denova like how we can do HM EV and KP then there would be no point to the loot anyways. We actually enjoyed wiping and learning the fights. If you are having a hard time with the damage the bosses do then stack ranged dps (who shouldn't be taking any damage). If you are still having issues with taking too much damage then you have a problem with the mechanics.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
04.23.2012 , 01:06 PM | #202
Quote: Originally Posted by andrew_b_gross View Post
It took my guild way more than a week to clear EV on normal mode.

It took us way more than a week to clear KP on normal mode.

We cleared EC on story mode in a week, and it wasn't particularly difficult. We made it way harder than it needed to be by doing the first 3 bosses on 16 man (and would have had the 4th down if our main tank didn't need to log off)-- Bioware still hasn't fixed the 8/16 man balance.

To give you an idea of how NOT hardcore my guild is: I've wiped 30+ times on the 2nd boss in the new HM FP with two different groups (all guild members), the majority of us in full Rakata. I still haven't killed him.

If we can clear EC in story mode in a week, I just can't imagine it's overtuned. I'm sorry, I hate the false-bragging-by-claiming-the-content-is-easy tactic as much as the next guy, and it bugs me to know some of you are going to think that's what I'm doing, but... it really, truly isn't hard.
If any of your raid is wearing even 1 piece of Rakata gear, then you are overgeared for storymode EC. Please keep that mind.

So yeah, if most of your guild is wearing 60% or more Rakata, then storymode EC is going to seem easier than it really is for those following the storymode progression path. This is much like 25man guilds returning to 10man difficulty in WoW Wrath and claiming 10man was easymode. Yeah, sure it is, when you overgear the place.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
04.23.2012 , 01:07 PM | #203
Quote: Originally Posted by mzhou View Post
What's fun about rolling through everything in only a few attempts? There is nothing fun about a tank and spank. The fun part of raiding is coordinating, learning the mechanics, and then finally downing the boss. That's where the real satisfaction comes from. If my guild could do HM Denova like how we can do HM EV and KP then there would be no point to the loot anyways. We actually enjoyed wiping and learning the fights. If you are having a hard time with the damage the bosses do then stack ranged dps (who shouldn't be taking any damage). If you are still having issues with taking too much damage then you have a problem with the mechanics.
I don't think anyone is saying hardmode Denova is too hard. People were talking about storymode.

mzhou's Avatar


mzhou
04.23.2012 , 01:12 PM | #204
Quote: Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
I don't think anyone is saying hardmode Denova is too hard. People were talking about storymode.
Im comparing a full rakata group doing HM denova to a lesser geared group doing story mode denova. We have more fun in HM because it is more challenging. Likewise, lesser geared groups should have fun experiencing the challenge and then overcoming it. There is no point to any content if it is too easy for its intended audience.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
04.23.2012 , 01:20 PM | #205
Quote: Originally Posted by mzhou View Post
Im comparing a full rakata group doing HM denova to a lesser geared group doing story mode denova. We have more fun in HM because it is more challenging. Likewise, lesser geared groups should have fun experiencing the challenge and then overcoming it. There is no point to any content if it is too easy for its intended audience.
You have to remember the target audience. You are far more likely to find people willing to beat their heads against the wall 10 to 20 times a night for hardmode kills than you are for storymode kills.

Seriously, not everyone desires challenging group-oriented content. That is why the hardmode/nightmare mode switches exist.

If you don't believe me, then go peek at WoW's current raiding absorption numbers between LFR, Normal and Hardmodes.

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
04.23.2012 , 01:33 PM | #206
Why is it that the raid are too hard instead of you are too bad of a player???



Nothing is too hard, as long as you are a good player. Bad players should not be able to faceroll though raids, raids are for RAIDERS.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
04.23.2012 , 01:36 PM | #207
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
Why is it that the raid are too hard instead of you are too bad of a player???



Nothing is too hard, as long as you are a good player. Bad players should not be able to faceroll though raids, raids are for RAIDERS.
Please define what makes a "raider" to you.

I've been raiding off and on, both hardcore and casual since 2001. I'm curious what your definition is.

Remulan's Avatar


Remulan
04.23.2012 , 01:37 PM | #208
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
Why is it that the raid are too hard instead of you are too bad of a player???



Nothing is too hard, as long as you are a good player. Bad players should not be able to faceroll though raids, raids are for RAIDERS.
Yea! Story mode should be for the top 10% of players and hm for the top 5% with nmm for the top 1%, screw the rest of you guys.

Crankyhobo's Avatar


Crankyhobo
04.23.2012 , 01:46 PM | #209
I am no stranger to hard content; i ran a progression guild after wow's launch; at that time it was coordinating 40 people per raid on Ragnaros. We were in ****** in blues running 12 hour /day progression trying for server and world firsts, we would log off inside the instance to continue raiding the next day. And there were no youtubes videos or strategy articles, You came up with strategies as you went along to the problems you observed. I do understand the rush and drive and satisfaction with all this.

I don't care if they make hard and nightmare twice as hard as it is now; from some of the posts in this thread talking about how easy it is, completing hard mode 4/4 within a week. You guys SHOULD have a challenge because that's what its all about for you.

There's obviously a wide gamut of casualness within 'casual players', but from people i know::
  • You would call them 'baddies', they make mistakes, tunnel vision, have lame gear etc. But they're not unintelligent, they just aren't the type to research how to balance their stats and maximize their rotations etc.
  • Many are real-life friends, colleagues etc, If you want to play with your friends, you need to consider raid balance as much as you can, but, its not simply a matter of 'only raid with capable players', that's contrary to the point of enjoying the experience 'with your friends'
  • They're engineers and managers and housewives, who also want to spend time with their kids, maybe they play to escape from the stress of their day-to-day, maybe they alternate with console games when and if they have time, and most of them play for the 'social aspect', to hang out with their friend who may have moved across the country and experience something together.

Well these players have been playing all the content so far, 4 months in they've done the flash-points and some story-mode EV/KP. Now BW has released a patch, which has awesome new content right? new stuff to do and explore? banners across the launcher and website saying 'check out the cool new content we've made for you', why did they release content? it's to keep players interested in playing the game for a while, so that we keep paying our monthly subscription so they can all remain employed.

Its not a matter of expecting something for nothing, being handed loot for free, its about wanting to have some fun and see some new content, if you put that out of reach and say only really good players can get new content then these people will get bored and stop playing.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
04.23.2012 , 01:49 PM | #210
Quote: Originally Posted by Crankyhobo View Post
I am no stranger to hard content; i ran a progression guild after wow's launch; at that time it was coordinating 40 people per raid on Ragnaros. We were in ****** in blues running 12 hour /day progression trying for server and world firsts, we would log off inside the instance to continue raiding the next day. And there were no youtubes videos or strategy articles, You came up with strategies as you went along to the problems you observed. I do understand the rush and drive and satisfaction with all this.

I don't care if they make hard and nightmare twice as hard as it is now; from some of the posts in this thread talking about how easy it is, completing hard mode 4/4 within a week. You guys SHOULD have a challenge because that's what its all about for you.

There's obviously a wide gamut of casualness within 'casual players', but from people i know::
  • You would call them 'baddies', they make mistakes, tunnel vision, have lame gear etc. But they're not unintelligent, they just aren't the type to research how to balance their stats and maximize their rotations etc.
  • Many are real-life friends, colleagues etc, If you want to play with your friends, you need to consider raid balance as much as you can, but, its not simply a matter of 'only raid with capable players', that's contrary to the point of enjoying the experience 'with your friends'

Well these players have been playing all the content so far, 4 months in they've done the flash-points and some story-mode EV/KP. Now BW has released a patch, which has awesome new content right? new stuff to do and explore? banners across the launcher and website saying 'check out the cool new content we've made for you', why did they release content? it's to keep players interested in playing the game for a while? so that we keep paying our monthly subscription so they can all remain employed.

Its not a matter of being expecting something for nothing, being handed loot for free, its about wanting to have some fun and see some new content, if you put that out of reach and say only really good players can get new content then these people will get bored and stop playing.
Well said, Crankyhobo, well said.